Conservatives are fucking stupid

Threedee said:
Apparently you know nothing of 19th Century liberalism. Liberalism was mostly a product of southern ideologues, but that's okay because they gave us democracy, and then came back from Reconstruction and got on board the labor movement.
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Don't be a fucking dolt. It is NEVER conservative to want to CHANGE the traditions that have been held on to. Free soilers in Kansas were NEVER viewed as Conservative traditionalists. I am using liberal and conservative in its modern meaning. Conservatives have NEVER been for the advancement of civil liberties absent the 2d amendment. Liberals have always fought for free speech rights to apply to all types of speech, liberals have ALWAYS fought for a separation of church and state, LIBERALS and Moderates were the ONLY ones fighting to end aparthied in the US. COnservativism in this country has always been about NOT CHANGING the status quo. Abolitionist republicans were not CONSERVATIVE. They wanted to radically change the status quo in this country.
 
Socrtease said:
Liberals and Moderates (not read as any party) worked to put an end to slavery in this country. Liberals put an end to segregation. Liberals put an end to jim crow in the voting booth. Liberals made sure that IF you were arrested by the local police that your right against self incrimination was not violated. Liberals made sure that evidence obtained absent a search warrant could not be used in court against you. Liberals made sure that Jewish and Buhdist and Atheist kids were not forced to sit and listen to the prayers of christians spewed over the intercom at their schools. Conservatives were opposed to EVERY SINGLE THING is just mention up there. COnservatives believed that the US Constitution did not apply to the states when it came to criminal procedure. COnservatives believed that whether black kids got to go to the same schools as white kids should be left up to the likes of George Wallace who once said Segregation now, segregation tommorrow, segregation forever. Conserverative have been opposed to almost every advancement of civil liberties in this country in the last 100 years.
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Northern REPUBLICANS ENDED SLAVERY....its very disrespectful to try to align them with todays liberals.....:clink:
 
And by ending slavery they were breaking with traditionally held values. Fuck you conservatives really are fucking stoopid.

con�ser�va�tive �� (kn-s�rv-tv) KEY �

ADJECTIVE:

Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.
Traditional or restrained in style: a conservative dark suit.
Moderate; cautious: a conservative estimate.

Of or relating to the political philosophy of conservatism.
Belonging to a conservative party, group, or movement.
Conservative Of or belonging to the Conservative Party in the United Kingdom or the Progressive Conservative Party in Canada.
Conservative Of or adhering to Conservative Judaism.
Tending to conserve; preservative: the conservative use of natural resources.
NOUN:

One favoring traditional views and values.
A supporter of political conservatism.
Conservative A member or supporter of the Conservative Party in the United Kingdom or the Progressive Conservative Party in Canada.
Archaic A preservative agent or principle.

lib�er�al �� (lbr-l, lbrl) KEY �

ADJECTIVE:


Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.

Tending to give freely; generous: a liberal benefactor.
Generous in amount; ample: a liberal serving of potatoes.
Not strict or literal; loose or approximate: a liberal translation.
Of, relating to, or based on the traditional arts and sciences of a college or university curriculum: a liberal education.

Archaic Permissible or appropriate for a person of free birth; befitting a lady or gentleman.
Obsolete Morally unrestrained; licentious.
NOUN:

A person with liberal ideas or opinions.
Liberal A member of a Liberal political party.
 
bravo said:
Northern REPUBLICANS ENDED SLAVERY....its very disrespectful to try to align them with todays liberals.....:clink:
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Not at all. In the early days of the republic ideology depended far more on region than party. Neither party was really "liberal", as liberal was mostly a European philosophy. Republicans wanted to restrict trade, which isn't very liberal, but Democrats supported slavery, which wasn't liberal. Liberalism as a term came to America mostly in the 1930's, whenever FDR took social democracy and named it liberalism. I guess American liberalism could be called just a more leftist than usual version of social liberalism. There's a tendency among some liberals to discount the importance of individual liberty, though, but most of those guys just call themselves "progressives".
 
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The most successful liberal parties in Europe are mostly ultra-right wing. There was a great deal of aristocracy present in early liberal philosophy. There are a few moderate liberal parties but they rarely get more than 10% of the vote. Which really confirms my suspicion that liberalism in America has a lot more to do with social democracy than liberalism.
 
Dixie said:
Well, Ib1 the basic context of your argument is that we are stupid by fiat. Since you are a brain-dead moron, being simply stupid makes us geniuses. Had you interjected some commentary to support your argument, perhaps your point would have credibility. However, you neglected this detail, which usually means you didn't have the intelligence to support your argument, or you didn't have the substance. I've argued things with you before, and I think it may be a bit of both, in your case. You lack the intelligence to support your arguments, of which you have no substance to support to begin with. In short, you are a blowhard liberal punk who just wants to hurl insults at people without justification. You've been exposed as a fraud.
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Anyone that buys a Fiat is stupid.

And anyone that still supports the Bush policies has no hope of even rising to the stupid level.
 
Now that we agree on established, well known history about who stopped slavery we can continue on to another well know fact of history...that Democrats fought tooth and nail against civil rights for blacks for 100+ years after the end of the civil war....if you need to tag them with the liberal label...well that crap is up to you....
 
bravo said:
Now that we agree on established, well known history about who stopped slavery we can continue on to another well know fact of history...that Democrats fought tooth and nail against civil rights for blacks for 100+ years after the end of the civil war....if you need to tag them with the liberal label...well that crap is up to you....
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Note above, oh ye of little brains. "In the early republic ideology had a lot more to do with region than with party".
 
FYI....

October 13, 1858:
During the Lincoln-Douglas debates, Senator Stephen Douglas (D-IL) stated: “I do not regard the Negro as my equal, and positively deny that he is my brother, or any kin to me whatever”; Douglas was the Democratic Party’s 1860 presidential nominee. He lost.

April 16, 1862:
Republican President Abraham Lincoln signed the bill abolishing slavery in the District of Columbia; in Congress, 99% of Republicans voted yes, 83% of northern Democrats voted no.

July 17, 1862:
Over unanimous northern Democrat opposition, the Republican Congress passed the Confiscation Act, stating that slaves of the Confederacy “shall be forever free”.
 
Argueing about 19th century politics ? Talk about desperately avoiding the current issues.

Ohh well have at it.
 
Socrtease said:
Don't be a fucking dolt. It is NEVER conservative to want to CHANGE the traditions that have been held on to. Free soilers in Kansas were NEVER viewed as Conservative traditionalists.

I am using liberal and conservative in its modern meaning.

No shit Sherlock....and in doing so you try to give credit to the fucking bigots of the Democratic party for what was accomplished by REPUBLICANS ....CLOWN




Conservatives have NEVER been for the advancement of civil liberties absent the 2d amendment. Liberals have always fought for free speech rights to apply to all types of speech, liberals have ALWAYS fought for a separation of church and state, LIBERALS and Moderates were the ONLY ones fighting to end aparthied in the US. COnservativism in this country has always been about NOT CHANGING the status quo. Abolitionist republicans were not CONSERVATIVE. They wanted to radically change the status quo in this country.
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b
 
bravo said:
FYI....

October 13, 1858:
During the Lincoln-Douglas debates, Senator Stephen Douglas (D-IL) stated: “I do not regard the Negro as my equal, and positively deny that he is my brother, or any kin to me whatever”; Douglas was the Democratic Party’s 1860 presidential nominee. He lost.
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Lincoln said basically the same thing.
 
Watermark said:
Lincoln said basically the same thing.
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January 31, 1865:
The 13th Amendment banning slavery was passed by the U.S. House with unanimous Republican support, against intense Democrat opposition.

April 8, 1865:
The 13th Amendment banning slavery was passed by U.S. Senate with 100% Republican support, 63% Democrat opposition.
 
Socrtease said:
Don't be a fucking dolt. It is NEVER conservative to want to CHANGE the traditions that have been held on to. Free soilers in Kansas were NEVER viewed as Conservative traditionalists. I am using liberal and conservative in its modern meaning. Conservatives have NEVER been for the advancement of civil liberties absent the 2d amendment. Liberals have always fought for free speech rights to apply to all types of speech, liberals have ALWAYS fought for a separation of church and state, LIBERALS and Moderates were the ONLY ones fighting to end aparthied in the US. COnservativism in this country has always been about NOT CHANGING the status quo. Abolitionist republicans were not CONSERVATIVE. They wanted to radically change the status quo in this country.
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Most people did not oppose slavery because of the institution itself. They felt it was a threat to regions whose economies were not based based upon cash crops and the use of slave labor. They were experiencing a very conservative reaction to slavery for the most part. Others were religious fanatics, and how many of those do you find on the left today?

Most abolitionists had no intention of changing the status quo in the north. Even as they ratified the 14th Amendment, blacks were not being allowed to vote in northern states. They took a gamble and decided the 15th Amendment would create a strong coalition in the south and evenutally ratified it as well...
 
bravo said:
January 31, 1865:
The 13th Amendment banning slavery was passed by the U.S. House with unanimous Republican support, against intense Democrat opposition.

April 8, 1865:
The 13th Amendment banning slavery was passed by U.S. Senate with 100% Republican support, 63% Democrat opposition.
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All 3 of them?
 
November 22, 1865:
Republicans denounced the Democrat legislature of Mississippi for enacting “black codes,” which institutionalized racial discrimination.

February 5, 1866:
U.S. Rep. Thaddeus Stevens (R-PA) introduced legislation, successfully opposed by Democrat Andrew Johnson, to implement reparations relief by distributing land to former slaves.
 
bravo is conflating "democrat" with liberal ideals - specifically, the fact that democrats in 1865 weren't liberals as we know them today. The rolls of the parties was practically reversed.
 
Just got home and you guys are STILL at this. It's Friday night...for heaven's sake go do something fun!!!
 
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