Court rejects death penalty for raping children

Socrtease said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080625/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_child_rape

WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court on Wednesday outlawed executions of people convicted of raping a child.

In a 5-4 vote, the court said the Louisiana law allowing the death penalty to be imposed in such cases violates the Constitution's ban on cruel and unusual punishment.

"The death penalty is not a proportional punishment for the rape of a child," Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote in his majority opinion. His four liberal colleagues joined him, while the four more conservative justices dissented.

There has not been an execution in the United States for a crime that did not also involve the death of the victim in 44 years.

Patrick Kennedy, 43, was sentenced to death for the rape of his 8-year-old stepdaughter in Louisiana. He is one of two people in the United States, both in Louisiana, who have been condemned to death for a rape that was not also accompanied by a killing.

The Supreme Court banned executions for rape in 1977 in a case in which the victim was an adult woman.

Forty-five states ban the death penalty for any kind of rape, and the other five states allow it for child rapists. Montana, Oklahoma, South Carolina and Texas allow executions in such cases if the defendant had previously been convicted of raping a child.

The court struggled over how to apply standards laid out in decisions barring executions for the mentally retarded and people younger than 18 when they committed murder. In those cases, the court cited trends in the states away from capital punishment.

In this case, proponents of the Louisiana law said the trend was toward the death penalty, a point mentioned by Justice Samuel Alito in his dissent.

"The harm that is caused to the victims and to society at large by the worst child rapists is grave," Alito wrote. "It is the judgment of the Louisiana lawmakers and those in an increasing number of other states that these harms justify the death penalty."

But Kennedy said the absence of any executions for rape and the small number of states that allow it demonstrate "there is a national consensus against capital punishment for the crime of child rape."

Kennedy also acknowledged that the decision had to come to terms with "the years of long anguish that must be endured by the victim of child rape."

Still, Kennedy concluded that in cases of crimes against individuals — as opposed to treason, for example — "the death penalty should not be expanded to instances where the victim's life was not taken."

The decision does not affect the imposition of the death penalty for other crimes that do not involve murder, including treason and espionage, he said.

"It looks like a smashing victory on all fronts for us," said Denise LeBoeuf, a longtime capital defense attorney from New Orleans.

The girl's mother said, "We don't talk about that" and hung up.

The author of the Louisiana law, former Republican state Rep. Pete Schneider, said even opponents of the death penalty told him they would kill anyone who raped their children. "When are you going to have the courage to stand up for what's right for all of the people — but especially the children under 12 that have been brutally raped by monsters?" Schneider said, directing his comments to the justices in Wednesday's majority.

The last executions for crimes other than murder took place in 1964, according to a database maintained by the Death Penalty Information Center.

Ronald Wolfe, 34, died in Missouri's gas chamber on May 8, 1964 for rape. James Coburn was electrocuted in Alabama on Sept. 4 of that year for robbery.

Patrick Kennedy was convicted in 2003 of raping his stepdaughter at their home in Harvey, La., outside New Orleans. The girl initially told police she was sorting Girl Scout cookies in the garage when two boys assaulted her.

Police arrested Kennedy a couple of weeks after the March 1998 rape, but more than 20 months passed before the girl identified him as her attacker.

His defense attorney at the time argued that blood testing was inconclusive and that the victim was pressured to change her story.

The Louisiana Supreme Court upheld the sentence, saying that "short of first-degree murder, we can think of no other non-homicide crime more deserving" of the death penalty. State Chief Justice Pascal Calogero noted in dissent that the U.S. high court already had made clear that capital punishment could not be imposed without the death of the victim, except possibly for espionage or treason.

A second Louisiana man, Richard Davis was sentenced to death in December for repeatedly raping a 5-year-old girl in Caddo Parish, which includes Shreveport. Local prosecutor Lea Hall told jurors: "Execute this man. Justice has a sword and this sword needs to swing today."

The high court's decision leaves intact Kennedy's conviction, but will lead to a new sentence.

The case is Kennedy v. Louisiana, 07-343.
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I agree with the decision, but they left out that this guy so brutally raped this child that she needed to be operated on. Certainly he should never be let out of prison.
 
I think it would tend to make some more likely to kill more easily. But thats just my opinion.

But the information showing that the death penalty is not a deterrent is easily found.


"One argument in support of capital punishment is that the threat of death deters murder more effectively than prison. However, research indicates that the death penalty is no more effective as a deterrent to murder than the punishment of life in jail. States with the death penalty on average do not have lower rates of homicide than states without the penalty. The average murder rate per 100,00 people in 1999 among death penalty states was 5.5 and the average murder rate among non-death penalty states was 3.6 (US Dept. of Justice, 2001). A study examining executions in Texas between 1984 and 1997 found that the murder rate was steady and that there was no evidence of a deterrent effect. The number of executions was found to be unrelated to murder rates (Sorenson, Wrinkle, Brewer and Marquart, 1999). Furthermore, a survey of experts from the American Society of Criminology, the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences, and the Law and Society Association shows that the overwhelming majority of these experts do not believe that the death penalty is a proven deterrent to homicide. "

The rest of the info can be found at http://www.uvm.edu/~vlrs/doc/deathpenalty.htm
 
Im sure he was charged in such a way as to reflect the harm done to the child.

When an evil bastard like this harms anyone in such a way you really dont want one of the thoughts running through his mind to be "well I guess I might as well kill them".
 
bravo said:
I can only wonder if it was your child would you still be a fuckin' liberal idiot...?

Yeah...probably...
Click to expand...

If it were my daughter, the scum sucking pig should pray that he is caught and incarcerated for the rest of his life. Because what I would do to him would make being raped in a prison shower seem like an episode of Mr. Roger's Neighborhood.

But that is speaking as a father. My emotional reaction is not an indication of what our justice system should do.
 
Solitary said:
If it were my daughter, the scum sucking pig should pray that he is caught and incarcerated for the rest of his life. Because what I would do to him would make being raped in a prison shower seem like an episode of Mr. Roger's Neighborhood.

But that is speaking as a father. My emotional reaction is not an indication of what our justice system should do.
Click to expand...

Exactly.
 
Solitary said:
I think it would tend to make some more likely to kill more easily. But thats just my opinion.

But the information showing that the death penalty is not a deterrent is easily found.


"One argument in support of capital punishment is that the threat of death deters murder more effectively than prison. However, research indicates that the death penalty is no more effective as a deterrent to murder than the punishment of life in jail. States with the death penalty on average do not have lower rates of homicide than states without the penalty. The average murder rate per 100,00 people in 1999 among death penalty states was 5.5 and the average murder rate among non-death penalty states was 3.6 (US Dept. of Justice, 2001). A study examining executions in Texas between 1984 and 1997 found that the murder rate was steady and that there was no evidence of a deterrent effect. The number of executions was found to be unrelated to murder rates (Sorenson, Wrinkle, Brewer and Marquart, 1999). Furthermore, a survey of experts from the American Society of Criminology, the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences, and the Law and Society Association shows that the overwhelming majority of these experts do not believe that the death penalty is a proven deterrent to homicide. "

The rest of the info can be found at http://www.uvm.edu/~vlrs/doc/deathpenalty.htm
Click to expand...

Moreover, particularly at the time of the commission of the crime, the perpetrator usually doesn't believe that s/he will ever be caught. Or at the very least, the prospect of apprehension isn't even part of the consideration. When it comes to child molestation (what a euphemism for this crime!) the abuser generally also terrorizes the victim to the point where he or she is terrified to report what was done, or in one case mentioned above, will accuse others (often unnamed/unidentified) if visible injury has occurred.

The same goes for most types of crimes. Apparently the wrong isn't in the deed, but in being caught.
 
Solitary said:
I think it would tend to make some more likely to kill more easily. But thats just my opinion.

But the information showing that the death penalty is not a deterrent is easily found.


"One argument in support of capital punishment is that the threat of death deters murder more effectively than prison. However, research indicates that the death penalty is no more effective as a deterrent to murder than the punishment of life in jail. States with the death penalty on average do not have lower rates of homicide than states without the penalty. The average murder rate per 100,00 people in 1999 among death penalty states was 5.5 and the average murder rate among non-death penalty states was 3.6 (US Dept. of Justice, 2001). A study examining executions in Texas between 1984 and 1997 found that the murder rate was steady and that there was no evidence of a deterrent effect. The number of executions was found to be unrelated to murder rates (Sorenson, Wrinkle, Brewer and Marquart, 1999). Furthermore, a survey of experts from the American Society of Criminology, the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences, and the Law and Society Association shows that the overwhelming majority of these experts do not believe that the death penalty is a proven deterrent to homicide. "

The rest of the info can be found at http://www.uvm.edu/~vlrs/doc/deathpenalty.htm
Click to expand...

No disrespect intended but I can think of few things worse than raping a child. I have no problem with someone sent to fry or at the least serving life in prison without parole for that crime.
 
cawacko said:
No disrespect intended but I can think of few things worse than raping a child. I have no problem with someone sent to fry or at the least serving life in prison without parole for that crime.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. But my point is that capital punishment serves no purpose other than to satisfy a blood lust for revenge. And that is not the sort of position I think our justice system ought to be promoting.
 
cawacko said:
No disrespect intended but I can think of few things worse than raping a child. I have no problem with someone sent to fry or at the least serving life in prison without parole for that crime.
Click to expand...

Life in prison is to me, the answer. These are seriously disturbed, violent pedophiles and nothing will “deter” them. So first offense, whether it’s rape or sexual abuse, of a child, you put them away forever. They have to be removed from society. That is my opinion on this. But you would be amazed over some of the sentences. You can sexually abuse a 5 year old and be out in three years, even less, but we have our prisons filled with non-violent drug offenders. There’s a systemic problem here.
 
Darla said:
Life in prison is to me, the answer. These are seriously disturbed, violent pedophiles and nothing will “deter” them. So first offense, whether it’s rape or sexual abuse, of a child, you put them away forever. They have to be removed from society. That is my opinion on this. But you would be amazed over some of the sentences. You can sexually abuse a 5 year old and be out in three years, even less, but we have our prisons filled with non-violent drug offenders. There’s a systemic problem here.
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Yeah, I don't understand that at all. We have several lawyers on this board does anyone know how that comes about, someone sexually abusing a child and being able to get out after a couple of years?

And you make an excellent point that something is wrong when someone related to drugs spends more time in prison than a child molester.
 
If it were my child:

Well, I say we should just remove their skin and then send them to prison. If they grow a new one they can stay alive and become the local sex slave for all prisoners.
 
Someone make Dano read this. He still accuses me of coddling baby rapists because I told him that putting a guy to death wasn't an appropriate punishment for the crime (or any crime, honestly).
 
Damocles said:
If it were my child:

Well, I say we should just remove their skin and then send them to prison. If they grow a new one they can stay alive and become the local sex slave for all prisoners.
Click to expand...

Oh no, you can't send them to prison so quickly.

Removing their skin should be a looooong process. And just to make sure there are no nasty infection, you should rinse the area with a mixture of rubbing alcohol and salt.

Castration would also be a good punishment. But I wouldn't waste a sharp knife on that nasty job. I think a cheese grater would do just fine.




Yes, if this guy had done this to my daughter, prison would sound like a very good idea.
 
Socrtease said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080625/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_child_rape

WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court on Wednesday outlawed executions of people convicted of raping a child.

In a 5-4 vote, the court said the Louisiana law allowing the death penalty to be imposed in such cases violates the Constitution's ban on cruel and unusual punishment.

"The death penalty is not a proportional punishment for the rape of a child," Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote in his majority opinion. His four liberal colleagues joined him, while the four more conservative justices dissented.

There has not been an execution in the United States for a crime that did not also involve the death of the victim in 44 years.

Patrick Kennedy, 43, was sentenced to death for the rape of his 8-year-old stepdaughter in Louisiana. He is one of two people in the United States, both in Louisiana, who have been condemned to death for a rape that was not also accompanied by a killing.

The Supreme Court banned executions for rape in 1977 in a case in which the victim was an adult woman.

Forty-five states ban the death penalty for any kind of rape, and the other five states allow it for child rapists. Montana, Oklahoma, South Carolina and Texas allow executions in such cases if the defendant had previously been convicted of raping a child.

The court struggled over how to apply standards laid out in decisions barring executions for the mentally retarded and people younger than 18 when they committed murder. In those cases, the court cited trends in the states away from capital punishment.

In this case, proponents of the Louisiana law said the trend was toward the death penalty, a point mentioned by Justice Samuel Alito in his dissent.

"The harm that is caused to the victims and to society at large by the worst child rapists is grave," Alito wrote. "It is the judgment of the Louisiana lawmakers and those in an increasing number of other states that these harms justify the death penalty."

But Kennedy said the absence of any executions for rape and the small number of states that allow it demonstrate "there is a national consensus against capital punishment for the crime of child rape."

Kennedy also acknowledged that the decision had to come to terms with "the years of long anguish that must be endured by the victim of child rape."

Still, Kennedy concluded that in cases of crimes against individuals — as opposed to treason, for example — "the death penalty should not be expanded to instances where the victim's life was not taken."

The decision does not affect the imposition of the death penalty for other crimes that do not involve murder, including treason and espionage, he said.

"It looks like a smashing victory on all fronts for us," said Denise LeBoeuf, a longtime capital defense attorney from New Orleans.

The girl's mother said, "We don't talk about that" and hung up.

The author of the Louisiana law, former Republican state Rep. Pete Schneider, said even opponents of the death penalty told him they would kill anyone who raped their children. "When are you going to have the courage to stand up for what's right for all of the people — but especially the children under 12 that have been brutally raped by monsters?" Schneider said, directing his comments to the justices in Wednesday's majority.

The last executions for crimes other than murder took place in 1964, according to a database maintained by the Death Penalty Information Center.

Ronald Wolfe, 34, died in Missouri's gas chamber on May 8, 1964 for rape. James Coburn was electrocuted in Alabama on Sept. 4 of that year for robbery.

Patrick Kennedy was convicted in 2003 of raping his stepdaughter at their home in Harvey, La., outside New Orleans. The girl initially told police she was sorting Girl Scout cookies in the garage when two boys assaulted her.

Police arrested Kennedy a couple of weeks after the March 1998 rape, but more than 20 months passed before the girl identified him as her attacker.

His defense attorney at the time argued that blood testing was inconclusive and that the victim was pressured to change her story.

The Louisiana Supreme Court upheld the sentence, saying that "short of first-degree murder, we can think of no other non-homicide crime more deserving" of the death penalty. State Chief Justice Pascal Calogero noted in dissent that the U.S. high court already had made clear that capital punishment could not be imposed without the death of the victim, except possibly for espionage or treason.

A second Louisiana man, Richard Davis was sentenced to death in December for repeatedly raping a 5-year-old girl in Caddo Parish, which includes Shreveport. Local prosecutor Lea Hall told jurors: "Execute this man. Justice has a sword and this sword needs to swing today."

The high court's decision leaves intact Kennedy's conviction, but will lead to a new sentence.

The case is Kennedy v. Louisiana, 07-343.
Click to expand...

A lot of 5-4 decisions these days.

I was kind of hoping they would allow it, because after the ensuing American bloodbath it would make it a lot easier to just abolish the penalty entirely.
 
Solitary said:
I think it would tend to make some more likely to kill more easily. But thats just my opinion.

But the information showing that the death penalty is not a deterrent is easily found.


"One argument in support of capital punishment is that the threat of death deters murder more effectively than prison. However, research indicates that the death penalty is no more effective as a deterrent to murder than the punishment of life in jail. States with the death penalty on average do not have lower rates of homicide than states without the penalty. The average murder rate per 100,00 people in 1999 among death penalty states was 5.5 and the average murder rate among non-death penalty states was 3.6 (US Dept. of Justice, 2001). A study examining executions in Texas between 1984 and 1997 found that the murder rate was steady and that there was no evidence of a deterrent effect. The number of executions was found to be unrelated to murder rates (Sorenson, Wrinkle, Brewer and Marquart, 1999). Furthermore, a survey of experts from the American Society of Criminology, the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences, and the Law and Society Association shows that the overwhelming majority of these experts do not believe that the death penalty is a proven deterrent to homicide. "

The rest of the info can be found at http://www.uvm.edu/~vlrs/doc/deathpenalty.htm
Click to expand...

It would be confusing to say that LWOP is a merciful sentence. Most nations that abolished the death penalty on mercy grounds abolished the life penalty with at the same time. It would be merciful to sentence them where it would be possible to get out on parole some day, but not LWOP. LWOP IS a death sentence. It's just cheaper and not as likely to kill innocent men.
 
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