Dead-On

[Cancel 2016.2]

I think people are less panicked than we thought they would be. Apparently even people who buy stocks understand that if they didn't get this money it would wind up authorized from the TARP fund.

It started getting ugly this morning in some sectors, but once Paulson came out and stated that Treasury would not let the Big 3 go down, things calmed down.

We might actually get a rally to the positive side before the day is out.

 

[Bonestorm]

It started getting ugly this morning in some sectors, but once Paulson came out and stated that Treasury would not let the Big 3 go down, things calmed down.

We might actually get a rally to the positive side before the day is out.

A rally makes no sense and as such I expect it.

 

[Bonestorm]

By the way, I understand why it is set up the way it is, but the idea that Senators that represent a minority of the population by a huge margin can hold legislation hostage that the Senators that represent a huge majority of the population just bothers the shit out of me.

 

[DigitalDave]

None. The Senate Republicans used the tactic that no one dare say out loud (THE FILIBUSTER) requiring the Democrats to come up with 60 votes to get to an up or down vote on the bill. There weren't enough Republicans crossing over to get it passed.

Ahh, haven't really had time to read the details. I thought the majority casted a no vote.

 

[Bonestorm]

Ahh, haven't really had time to read the details. I thought the majority casted a no vote.

Even if you read the details it wouldn't be clear to you since hardly anyone bothers to mention the filibuster.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

A rally makes no sense and as such I expect it.

Actually, it would make perfect sense. It is a POSITIVE for the market to know that the auto sector is not going to be allowed to collapse in the short term. Thus, if the information switches from 'the Senate GOP just fucked the auto sector' .... to ....'despite the Senate GOPs attempt to fuck the auto sector, the Treasury will ensure they don't fail'... then the market is going to react in a positive manner to that change.

 

[Bonestorm]

Actually, it would make perfect sense. It is a POSITIVE for the market to know that the auto sector is not going to be allowed to collapse in the short term. Thus, if the information switches from 'the Senate GOP just fucked the auto sector' .... to ....'despite the Senate GOPs attempt to fuck the auto sector, the Treasury will ensure they don't fail'... then the market is going to react in a positive manner to that change.

Coupled with the retail sales figures and latest jobs report and the fact that no one really knows what the Treasury is going to do, I don't see how it makes any sense at all to rally and end up. One half-positive doesn't make up for a lot of negative.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Coupled with the retail sales figures and latest jobs report and the fact that no one really knows what the Treasury is going to do, I don't see how it makes any sense at all to rally and end up. One half-positive doesn't make up for a lot of negative.

It is about confidence. The market was expecting most of the negative news from the retail sector. The two shockers last night and this morning were the Senate rejection and the amount prices declined (decline was expected, just not quite that much). If you take away one the larger of the two negatives, the market psychology could send this market positive.

Again, I am just saying that the Treasury announcement was well received on the street. I am purely guessing as to what the total impact will be. I think we could see a rally into the close based on that announcement. Bottom line, saying it makes no sense is incorrect as it was a major positive announcement.

 

[Bonestorm]

It is about confidence. The market was expecting most of the negative news from the retail sector. The two shockers last night and this morning were the Senate rejection and the amount prices declined (decline was expected, just not quite that much). If you take away one the larger of the two negatives, the market psychology could send this market positive.

Again, I am just saying that the Treasury announcement was well received on the street. I am purely guessing as to what the total impact will be. I think we could see a rally into the close based on that announcement. Bottom line, saying it makes no sense is incorrect as it was a major positive announcement.

In my view, it is a reason to avoid a massive sell off but hardly a reason to rally. That's all. We can disagree on this, too.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

In my view, it is a reason to avoid a massive sell off but hardly a reason to rally. That's all. We can disagree on this, too.

true... both of us are just stating opinions. But you are still wrong.

 

[blackascoal]

Digby says it all.

by digby

From Harry Reid just now:


"Given the unhappy choice between a bridge loan and bankruptcy, Democrats have always believed that we must give the Big Three and the millions of Americans they employ every possible chance to succeed.

"By rejecting every good-faith bipartisan compromise – including those from the White House and Senator Bob Corker – it is now abundantly clear that Republicans have no interest in keeping the Big Three from collapsing.

"Because Republicans failed to act, three million Americans are more likely than ever to lose their jobs and our economy is at risk of suffering even greater damage. Our hearts go out to those families who will now have to deal with this burden as the holidays near.

"Republicans may think that rejecting this legislation sent a message to the auto industry. Instead, they sent a message to every single American that they are more interested in settling scores than solving problems."


I'm not surprised. This is what they do. But if there's anyone left out there who thinks that these guys are on the post-partisan bandwagon, think again. They will do everything in their power to weaken Obama and fuck up this country even worse than they already have.

At this point, the only route they see power is to make things worse and blame it on the Democrats. What else do they have?

Now it's up to Bush to have Paulson release the money from the TARP, something they've been adamantly against up to now. I'm not holding my breath.

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/

While I completely agree with the assessment of republicans, it might also be wise to question Obama's "bi-partisanship" approach to solving America's problems. In a time of crisis that cries out for real fundamental change, Obama reaches for the same tired politics and players for solutions.

But the problem isn't just Obama, it's the entire Democratic Party, who even when they're in the majority, govern as if they're the minority.

Instead of capitulation and rolling over, America longs for real leadership and real courage in governance

 

[Bonestorm]

While I completely agree with the assessment of republicans, it might also be wise to question Obama's "bi-partisanship" approach to solving America's problems. In a time of crisis that cries out for real fundamental change, Obama reaches for the same tired politics and players for solutions.

But the problem isn't just Obama, it's the entire Democratic Party, who even when they're in the majority, govern as if they're the minority.

Instead of capitulation and rolling over, America longs for real leadership and real courage in governance

So, basically you want the Democrats in the Senate to get rid of the filibuster?

 

[Cancel7]

So, basically you want the Democrats in the Senate to get rid of the filibuster?

I don't think I want to go that far, but I wonder, why is it the Dems were unable to filibuster anything? And why is it that when the R's filibuster the dems aren't repeating that word over and over? One thing is for sure - we are in no way in any post-partisan period. Kissing R ass gets the same thing it has always gotten - a hard kick in the teeth, and a lot of laughing.

I would love to believe that we can all get along and that Obama is going to show us some new way. But I don't believe it's in the cards. They need to be murdered, politically.

 

[evince]

All they have left of power is to be obstructionists. It will kill them in the next election.

 

[blackascoal]

So, basically you want the Democrats in the Senate to get rid of the filibuster?

I want them to grow some balls and absolutely get rid of the filibuster for the minority in the Senate which gives them a veto over any and everything.

Senate Republicans are going to do everything in their power to ensure this country fails and Obama with it. Obama's course of "make nice with people who hate you" is doomed to failure, and in this time of crisis, this nation can't stand much more failure.

These are extrodinary times that call for strong leadership .. and if all democrats and Obama have to offer is weak pussy leadership, the republicans are going to run all over them.

Democrats had about a 50 seat majority in the Senate, but as I've said, governed as if they had republicans for permission to go to the bathroom.

 

[Cancel7]

Honestly, since the democrats are too scared to ever use the filibuster themselves, it wouldn't hurt liberals to kill it.

I just don't know about that, i'm on the fence.

 

[DigitalDave]

Coupled with the retail sales figures and latest jobs report and the fact that no one really knows what the Treasury is going to do, I don't see how it makes any sense at all to rally and end up. One half-positive doesn't make up for a lot of negative.

Sales and Jobs are pretty much lagging indicators. The stock market is usually looking 6 months out. I still don't think we've hit bottom but the sentiment is that there are a lot of buyers thinking we've bottomed. With bad numbers like that, and we aren't collapsing, well, that just makes investors feel warm and fuzzy.

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

apply directly to the forehead.

 

[Cancel7]

Thinking about this - the purpose of the filibuster is to protect against majority tyranny, but what about minority tyranny?

Then you have the fact that we just had eight years of majority tyranny, which the filibuster did not protect us against.

Now, that tyrannical majority has become the minority and seem poised to give us minority tyranny.

I mean, there's a really good case here.

 

[blackascoal]

I don't think I want to go that far, but I wonder, why is it the Dems were unable to filibuster anything? And why is it that when the R's filibuster the dems aren't repeating that word over and over? One thing is for sure - we are in no way in any post-partisan period. Kissing R ass gets the same thing it has always gotten - a hard kick in the teeth, and a lot of laughing.

I would love to believe that we can all get along and that Obama is going to show us some new way. But I don't believe it's in the cards. They need to be murdered, politically.