Debate Challange: Islam in Western Culture

CFM said:
In those countries, the culture and the religion that happens to be Islam are the same thing.
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No the religion is separate from the culture, same with Christianity. You are confused if you think they are the same thing. You see, here in the States many practice Islam with a different cultural perspective, this is the crux of the error of your claims and emotional response to Islam.

The culture of say, Saudi Arabia is clearly incompatible with Western Culture, but that is not the culture of Islam.
 
islam stinks said:
How am I asking you to prove a negative?

I am asking you what traits of islam make it compatible with western culture

You spouted off some statistic which you have yet to verify.

Now I know why you are Afraid of APP. YOU SUCK AT THIS
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Actually its you who sucks at having an adult conversation. I don't have to follow your agenda for such a debate, Ill make my points as I wish. Western Culture is largely based on the principal of freedom, and as such, any and all cultures that do not interfere with others rights are compatible. This is the beauty of Western Culture. Islam, as it is practiced in the United States fits directly into the idea that we don't prohibit the FREE exercise of religion. Note the emphisis, The boiled down basic principal of Western Culture is FREEdom! One of the most essential and preliminary concerns of the builders of Western Culture was the FREEdom to practice ANY religion!
 
Darth Hussein Omar said:
Your 99% number is a talking point that's not reflective of reality. Pew did an excellent study of what global Muslims believe and it's actually pretty troubling. It will take less than 5 minutes to google it.

At any rate, the better question is this: is Sharia law compatible with western values?

The short answer is it depends on which Muslim you ask. Muslims who advocate Sharia for non-Muslims are a threat to democracy; ironically, I'd wager many Muslims would advocate they not be allowed into this country.

Conversely, those Muslims who believe it's a set of laws pertaining only to Muslims would do just fine in a democracy.

As far as the numbers go, if just one percent of the global Muslim community believes Sharia pertains to everyone, you are talking about millions of Muslims, since the total population is in the billions. In other words, this isn't Fred Phelps and his little band of fringe Christians we're talking about here.

And the 1% number is almost certainly low. It's a real problem.
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Now you are not talking about culture but religious law. Sharia law. There are aspects of Sharia law that absolutely are comparable with Western Culture and aspects that absolutely are not. Should Muslims be free to enter into certain agreements that are based on Sharia law... Mostly yes. So the answer to your question is that some of the ways Sharia Law could be imposed is absolutely comparable with Western Culture and some of the ways are not. Much like certain interpretations of Christian law.

We have a small percent of Christians who believe in their own version of "Christian Law". Generally in my opinion its not very Christian in nature. We have a group of Christians, for example, who feel that the nightclub shooting of gay people in Orlando was a good thing... That fact no more means that Christian Culture is incompatible with Western Culture as does the incomparability of what some Muslims believe in about Sharia Law.

My point is that your sweeping premise that Muslim Culture is incompatible with Western Culture is false due to the absolute nature of the claim. There are some interpretations of Islam that absolutely are incompatible with Western Culture, just as there are some interpretations of Christianity that are incompatible with Western Culture.
 
Jarod said:
No the religion is separate from the culture, same with Christianity. You are confused if you think they are the same thing. You see, here in the States many practice Islam with a different cultural perspective, this is the crux of the error of your claims and emotional response to Islam.

The culture of say, Saudi Arabia is clearly incompatible with Western Culture, but that is not the culture of Islam.
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That culture is based on islam idiot.
 
Jarod said:
Now you are not talking about culture but religious law. Sharia law. There are aspects of Sharia law that absolutely are comparable with Western Culture and aspects that absolutely are not. Should Muslims be free to enter into certain agreements that are based on Sharia law... Mostly yes. So the answer to your question is that some of the ways Sharia Law could be imposed is absolutely comparable with Western Culture and some of the ways are not. Much like certain interpretations of Christian law.

We have a small percent of Christians who believe in their own version of "Christian Law". Generally in my opinion its not very Christian in nature. We have a group of Christians, for example, who feel that the nightclub shooting of gay people in Orlando was a good thing... That fact no more means that Christian Culture is incompatible with Western Culture as does the incomparability of what some Muslims believe in about Sharia Law.

My point is that your sweeping premise that Muslim Culture is incompatible with Western Culture is false due to the absolute nature of the claim. There are some interpretations of Islam that absolutely are incompatible with Western Culture, just as there are some interpretations of Christianity that are incompatible with Western Culture.
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Why don't you list those specific things you think are compatible?
 
islam stinks said:
Why don't you list those specific things you think are compatible?
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Well off the top of my head, it is prohibited for Muslims to charge interest on loans... Okay, so its perfectly compatible with Western Culture to lend someone money without charging interest if you want to...
 
Under Sharia law its amoral to practice homosexuality, and its perfectly acceptable in Western Culture to refuse to engage in homosexuality if you so chose.
 
Under Sharia Law, sex outside of marriage is unacceptable, in Western Culture is is perfectly acceptable to abstain from sex outside of marriage.
 
Under Sharia Law it is not allowed to drink alcohol, in Western Culture it is perfectly acceptable to abstain from drinking alcohol.
 
Jarod said:
Now you are not talking about culture but religious law. Sharia law. There are aspects of Sharia law that absolutely are comparable with Western Culture and aspects that absolutely are not. Should Muslims be free to enter into certain agreements that are based on Sharia law... Mostly yes. So the answer to your question is that some of the ways Sharia Law could be imposed is absolutely comparable with Western Culture and some of the ways are not. Much like certain interpretations of Christian law.

We have a small percent of Christians who believe in their own version of "Christian Law". Generally in my opinion its not very Christian in nature. We have a group of Christians, for example, who feel that the nightclub shooting of gay people in Orlando was a good thing... That fact no more means that Christian Culture is incompatible with Western Culture as does the incomparability of what some Muslims believe in about Sharia Law.

My point is that your sweeping premise that Muslim Culture is incompatible with Western Culture is false due to the absolute nature of the claim. There are some interpretations of Islam that absolutely are incompatible with Western Culture, just as there are some interpretations of Christianity that are incompatible with Western Culture.
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True enough, but radically interpreted Christianity is marginalized in this country by other Christians. There's a reason it's not in the news very often.

But here are some numbers on US Muslims.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/

Pew determined that 86% of US Muslims think suicide bombing in defense of Islam is always wrong. That sounds like a cheery number until you consider that if you're in a room with ten Muslims, almost two of them are okay with blowing up innocent people up in order to advance Islam.

And that's here in the US.
 
Darth Hussein Omar said:
True enough, but radically interpreted Christianity is marginalized in this country by other Christians. There's a reason it's not in the news very often.

But here are some numbers on US Muslims.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/

Pew determined that 86% of US Muslims think suicide bombing in defense of Islam is always wrong. That sounds like a cheery number until you consider that if you're in a room with ten Muslims, almost two of them are okay with blowing up innocent people up in order to advance Islam.

And that's here in the US.
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When you use the word ALWAYS in a poll, its clear you are looking for skewed number, pollsters know that a certain percent will never agree with ALWAYS. That said, if 86% think its wrong, a VAST majority, the group representing what we could call "Muslim Culture" are on the right side of the issue and are COMPATIBLE with Western Culture!
 
Darth Hussein Omar said:
True enough, but radically interpreted Christianity is marginalized in this country by other Christians. There's a reason it's not in the news very often.

But here are some numbers on US Muslims.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/


Pew determined that 86% of US Muslims think suicide bombing in defense of Islam is always wrong. That sounds like a cheery number until you consider that if you're in a room with ten Muslims, almost two of them are okay with blowing up innocent people up in order to advance Islam.

And that's here in the US.
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Based on your agreement that my post is "mostly true" I have won the debate.
 
Jarod said:
Teflon Don, (or anyone else who cares to join)

I would like to debate you on the merits of Islam as it pertains to western culture.

It is your belief that Islam as it is practiced by the majority of Muslims is incompatible with western culture. As such, you believe we have a duty to our children and country to prevent mass immigration of people who seek to change our country in vital ways.

Please share what it is about Islam that is incompatible with western culture.

Thank you
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My question is why does Islam have to be compatible with Western culture instead of the other way around.
 
Darth Hussein Omar said:
Your 99% number is a talking point that's not reflective of reality. Pew did an excellent study of what global Muslims believe and it's actually pretty troubling. It will take less than 5 minutes to google it.

At any rate, the better question is this: is Sharia law compatible with western values?

The short answer is it depends on which Muslim you ask. Muslims who advocate Sharia for non-Muslims are a threat to democracy; ironically, I'd wager many Muslims would advocate they not be allowed into this country.

Conversely, those Muslims who believe it's a set of laws pertaining only to Muslims would do just fine in a democracy.

As far as the numbers go, if just one percent of the global Muslim community believes Sharia pertains to everyone, you are talking about millions of Muslims, since the total population is in the billions. In other words, this isn't Fred Phelps and his little band of fringe Christians we're talking about here.

And the 1% number is almost certainly low. It's a real problem.
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The Pew study is flawed.

http://www.salon.com/2014/10/13/bil...r_argument_is_based_on_an_untrustworthy_poll/
 
christiefan915 said:
The Pew study is flawed.

http://www.salon.com/2014/10/13/bil...r_argument_is_based_on_an_untrustworthy_poll/
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Because of course a liberal dumbshit like yourself doesn't want to believe it.

What I am questioning here is not the methodology of the respected research Institute, but rather the genuineness of the answers provided by many of the 38,000 individuals it surveyed.
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He doesn't question the poll, only the responses, which of course he cannot believe.

:rofl2:
 
Seahawk said:
Because of course a liberal dumbshit like yourself doesn't want to believe it.

He doesn't question the poll, only the responses, which of course he cannot believe.

:rofl2:
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Well, his theory is that the respondents were fearful of saying the wrong thing about Islam---which can get you in really bad trouble in parts of the Muslim world.

Which, kind of defeats his point lol.
 
islam stinks said:
So let's review

1) I challenge GayRod to a debate in APP on how he thinks islam is compatible with western culture.
2) GayRod apparently can't comport to APP rules and wants me to change APP rules to suit him.
3) I obviously can't change APP rules so GayRod runs off
4) GayRod starts the same debate in the general forum
5) GayRod offers stats he can't back up
6) then in a fit of chutzpah GayRod claims I asked him to prove a negative

Man do I feel sorry for anyone he represents.
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Aaaaaand here comes the name calling.

ILA refuses to debate honestly, with civility.

No wonder no one takes him up on his "challenges".
 
islam stinks said:
How am I asking you to prove a negative?

I am asking you what traits of islam make it compatible with western culture

You spouted off some statistic which you have yet to verify.

Now I know why you are Afraid of APP. YOU SUCK AT THIS
Click to expand...

You've been asked to prove the claims made in your first response.

YOou have yet to do so.
 
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