Democrats: Please discredit this list of Obama tax increases for me.

[LadyT]

There is another fact that everyone in this thread has overlooked. The rich have gotten richer during Bush’s term. This is simply fact. They have benefited, disproportionately from the bush policies, and that includes this bloody war.

To make the claim that they should not have to pay higher taxes now that we are in this mess, when they directly and greatly benefited from getting us into it, is immoral, dishonest, and frankly, stupid. Because none of you are in that particular elite boat. Not even Chap, Cawacko or Top. You’re just wannabes.

the problem is it won't be just the elite that you talk about. It will be the Tops, Chaps, and Cawacko's that are going to get hit.

And I'm so sick of the term, "rich". I'd rather hear income brackets. Rich to some people is $1M. If Oprah woke up to find she was worth only $1M she'd kill herself.

 

[Onceler]

I've rationalized it this way:

I'm willing to pay to see this country change directions. Its worth a premium to me. It helps me get over it.

Yep - that sums it up for me. I don't mind paying a little more, as long as they don't try to do something like healthcare entirely on my back.

I'd like to see strong efforts to cut waste & make gov't more efficient, if tax increases are necessary. But I think, ultimately, if you're able to lift more people up and increase national productivity, any tax increases probably end up paying for themselves a few times over. It's just how you use the money.

 

[cawacko]

There is another fact that everyone in this thread has overlooked. The rich have gotten richer during Bush’s term. This is simply fact. They have benefited, disproportionately from the bush policies, and that includes this bloody war.

To make the claim that they should not have to pay higher taxes now that we are in this mess, when they directly and greatly benefited from getting us into it, is immoral, dishonest, and frankly, stupid. Because none of you are in that particular elite boat. Not even Chap, Cawacko or Top. You’re just wannabes.

The rich got richer during Clinton's term as well. That is fact. So we have a Republican and Democrat President that allowed the rich to get richer.

And a lot of American's are wannabes. It's the beauty of this country. Most rich people don't start rich. It is a gradual progression. But if you want to knock those who try that is your peragative.

 

[Cancel7]

the problem is it won't be just the elite that you talk about. It will be the Tops, Chaps, and Cawacko's that are going to get hit.

And I'm so sick of the term, "rich". I'd rather hear income brackets. Rich to some people is $1M. If Oprah woke up to find she was worth only $1M she'd kill herself.

I am talking about those who are not wage earners, the true 1 percentile. It’s not hard to run the numbers and see who has contributed to the greatest inequality since the 1920’s. If you think that’s good for a society, or even sustainable long-term, you’re fooling yourself.

 

[Cancel7]

The rich got richer during Clinton's term as well. That is fact. So we have a Republican and Democrat President that allowed the rich to get richer.

And a lot of American's are wannabes. It's the beauty of this country. Most rich people don't start rich. It is a gradual progression. But if you want to knock those who try that is your peragative.

But during the Clinton years, boats were lifted across classes. There is a reason that the greatest financial inequality since the 1920’s did not occur during the Clinton years, but rather, during the Bush years. Unless you want to dispute that?

Yes, it is attitudes like yours that contribute to people who will never even make six-figures being against the estate tax. Because someday, maybe…
You’re called suckers behind the closed doors of your heroes.

 

[cawacko]

But during the Clinton years, boats were lifted across classes. There is a reason that the greatest financial inequality since the 1920’s did not occur during the Clinton years, but rather, during the Bush years. Unless you want to dispute that?

Yes, it is attitudes like yours that contribute to people who will never even make six-figures being against the estate tax. Because someday, maybe…
You’re called suckers behind the closed doors of your heroes.

Because I studied and read and work hard I'm a sucker? Then a sucker I am because I'm not changing.

 

[Cancel7]

Fixed.

Maybe so. In this book that I have “Death by a thousand cuts”, they have actual polls and surveys in there that show that over 25% of Americans believe they are in the top 2 percentile. And an additional 30 something percent, believe they will be someday. And that’s how a tax which affects only 2 percent of all Americans, ever, the estate tax, was killed, with widespread support.
Again, these people are called suckers behind the closed doors of their heroes. They actually laugh at them. And there’s another one born every minute.

 

[Cancel7]

Because I studied and read and work hard I'm a sucker? Then a sucker I am because I'm not changing.

No you’re a sucker because you believe you’ll ever be part of the very elite I am talking about. You won’t be. When you die, if the estate tax is reinstated, which it probably will be (bush in order to hide its great costs, used a sleight of hand, but that also made it so that it expires in a few years, and I don’t think it will be allowed to, even though fools like you will be screaming “tax increase tax increase”), you will never pay it. Never. Not going to happen. Guaranteed.

 

[LadyT]

I am talking about those who are not wage earners, the true 1 percentile. It’s not hard to run the numbers and see who has contributed to the greatest inequality since the 1920’s. If you think that’s good for a society, or even sustainable long-term, you’re fooling yourself.

http://www.rdtc.com/Blog/archive/2008/06/06/obama--mccain-tax-views-of-the-next-president.aspx

"In addition, Obama also advocates increasing the income cap on payroll taxes. This would essentially be a huge tax increase for taxpayers earning between $97,000 and $250,000, ..........."

$250 hardly seems like the elite to me.

 

[evince]

My own mortgage doesn't even cost me more than a third of my salary.

Congress broke it congress needs to fix it, without me having to sacrifice.

I dont want to pay for it either, I also wish I could grow a money plant next to my tomato plant and that my husband loved to clean the shower.


Some things in life we just have to face like adults.

 

[uscitizen]

I is tha eleet.

 

[LadyT]

http://www.ontheissues.org/Economic/Barack_Obama_Tax_Reform.htm


OBAMA: I not only have pledged not to raise their taxes, I've been the first candidate in this race to specifically say I would cut their taxes. We are going to offset the payroll tax, the most regressive of our taxes, so that families who are middle-income individuals making $75,000 a year or less, that they would get a tax break so that families would see up to $1,000 worth of relief.

Q: You both have now just taken this pledge on people under $250,000 and $200,000.

OBAMA: Well, it depends on how you calculate it. But it would be between $200,000 and $250,000.

 

[evince]

http://www.ontheissues.org/Economic/Barack_Obama_Tax_Reform.htm


OBAMA: I not only have pledged not to raise their taxes, I've been the first candidate in this race to specifically say I would cut their taxes. We are going to offset the payroll tax, the most regressive of our taxes, so that families who are middle-income individuals making $75,000 a year or less, that they would get a tax break so that families would see up to $1,000 worth of relief.

Q: You both have now just taken this pledge on people under $250,000 and $200,000.

OBAMA: Well, it depends on how you calculate it. But it would be between $200,000 and $250,000.

It IS!

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-census0608-29.html

 

[LadyT]

I dont want to pay for it either, I also wish I could grow a money plant next to my tomato plant and that my husband loved to clean the shower.


Some things in life we just have to face like adults.

Like responsible budgetary practices?

i.e. Not spending more than what you take in?

and bailing people out that that do this?

 

[uscitizen]

Like responsible budgetary practices?

i.e. Not spending more than what you take in?

and bailing people out that that do this?

Right the subprime business bailout was at around a half trillion last time last time I checked.

Not counting the money the feds pumped in to try and boos the dollar.

 

[LadyT]

It IS!

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-census0608-29.html

Again, that's not a fair measure because then it becomes a regional issue and you can't paint a broad brush and just say $250k/year qualifies as the elite. That's just not true especially in the SF, NYC, and other NE metropolitan areas.

And there should be some concession or rebates offered to people in these areas.

 

[Onceler]

Like responsible budgetary practices?

i.e. Not spending more than what you take in?

and bailing people out that that do this?

The worst part of this campaign to me is the utter lack of focus on wasteful spending & fiscal responsiblity. There is a lot of talk about new programs, and I support things like universal healthcare if we can do it responsibly, but there hasn't been more than one sentence I have heard on making gov't more efficient, or reducing waste.

Obama said once, in an early debate, something to the effect of "our first thought shouldn't be how can we make taxes even higher," or something like that, but that was the last of it.

 

[TexasMeg]

the problem is it won't be just the elite that you talk about. It will be the Tops, Chaps, and Cawacko's that are going to get hit.

And I'm so sick of the term, "rich". I'd rather hear income brackets. Rich to some people is $1M. If Oprah woke up to find she was worth only $1M she'd kill herself.

I agree with you. It's going to reach much deeper than the "rich". That is what frightens me most about all this.

 

[Cancel7]

http://www.rdtc.com/Blog/archive/2008/06/06/obama--mccain-tax-views-of-the-next-president.aspx

"In addition, Obama also advocates increasing the income cap on payroll taxes. This would essentially be a huge tax increase for taxpayers earning between $97,000 and $250,000, ..........."

$250 hardly seems like the elite to me.

No it’s not, and I really wasn’t addressing that. I just wanted to add to this discussion, that certain tax “raises”, like allowing the bush tax cuts for the top two percent, to expire, or the capital gains tax to be raised to the level it was at during the Clinton years, cannot be allowed to be used in the right wing mantra of “tax and spend liberal”. Many taxes have been irresponsibly cut during the Bush years, most of those cuts, did not go to people like you, and most of the raises won’t either.

Social Security is a different issue, and that’s going to affect people like you. Is it going to be “huge”? I’d like to see the weekly dollar numbers on that, and then we’d have to define huge. Also I know he is still going to leave a so-called donut hole in there, so I’m not sure it’d affect those 100kers, or just 200kers. And no 200 thousand isn’t rich, but it’s doing ok, and SS is going to need more funds. Ronald Reagan raised SS taxes, and we all survived, as did SS, and, I might add, Reagan’s reputation as a tax-cutter.

 

[uscitizen]

Again, that's not a fair measure because then it becomes a regional issue and you can't paint a broad brush and just say $250k/year qualifies as the elite. That's just not true especially in the SF, NYC, and other NE metropolitan areas.

And there should be some concession or rebates offered to people in these areas.

It is a free country if you don't like it there move. Why should I subsidize your being there ?

Like the lady living her car.