Division in the Tea Party

[SmarterthanYou]

Okay, semantics, isn't the Constitution the Supreme law of the land? Is the Constitution considered a legal document? Isn't it considered Federal Law?

the constitution is not federal law. just as you said, it is the supreme law of the land. federal laws are supposed to be the guidelines for the states to abide by. Unfortunately, they are mandates for the states and the people to abide by or die.

How do you determine it is easy to get states to go along with the Constitution? Isn't that what the Civil War was about? So, it isn't always easy!

the civil war was not about states going along with the constitution. The civil war was waged to force the southern states to go along with a northern state agenda. Nothing about the civil war was legal in a constitutional sense. Don't be a victim of revisionist history.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

No, I wouldn't move I am free to have the law changed. I stay and fight for my rights, I am not a quitter!

that is definitely an option, and if you have a majority of the same mindset, then you absolutely don't have to move. How does one survive if they are in the minority though?

I have lived in Alaska for over 30 years, I don't like the politics of my state, but I like my state and the living it provides, so I guess you need another example. I choose to stay and fight for my rights under the federal law!

If you like your state and the living it provides (I would move there in a heartbeat, mind you), then you can't really not like your states politics.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Dixie, please give me an example of a Marxist Socialist policy that I have backed or supported?

Now is when I want you to chime in with examples to back up your claims.

WB, why don't you list the things you are FOR and AGAINST, and we can go through your list. I don't want to presume what you actually support, I'd rather let you present that and we can go from there. All I know is, you cheerlead for Marxist Socialists all the time, which is a pretty good indicator you support their policies.

 

[Phantasmal]

the constitution is not federal law. just as you said, it is the supreme law of the land. federal laws are supposed to be the guidelines for the states to abide by. Unfortunately, they are mandates for the states and the people to abide by or die.

the civil war was not about states going along with the constitution. The civil war was waged to force the southern states to go along with a northern state agenda. Nothing about the civil war was legal in a constitutional sense. Don't be a victim of revisionist history.

What I was taught in school about the Civil war has drastically changed since then. I am not an authority on the subject, but wasn't it state succession that lead to the North fighting the South, it was over state right involving new territories and slaves? Please educate me on how this is revisionist and how the war was not legal? If any war is legal, for that matter. Federal law is greater than state law? correct or am I wrong on this one, too? There are those who believe it should be the other way around, correct?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Yes, it is against "Federal" law

It's against the US Constitution AND Federal law. We don't need a US Dept. of Ed to protect us against things that are already against Federal law and the Constitution. It's kind of a really stupid 'point' to try and make, but you gave it a shot, didn't you?

I am not ignorant about the theories, but there are many who are and this is a position that has been addressed in states such as Kansas, thank goodness reason prevailed! ID is not science it is religion and politics and should not be taught as science, but that is another argument. I feel children should be taught about Id in the comparative religion classes or myths about the creation of the world classes.

You feel? What the fuck do YOUR feelings have to do with the knowledge and education MY child receives? Do you want YOUR child educated based on MY feelings of what they should or shouldn't know? You can say ID isn't science, but evolution fails to explain origin. When we teach children about the origins of life, we should at least teach them ID is a theory people have, whether or not it has scientific basis or not (which I happen to believe it does). I haven't said that we shouldn't teach people about the theory of evolution, I believe we should teach children EVERYTHING! We shouldn't pick and choose what they learn!

Federal agencies are to protect citizens from state stupidity! It is a sad fact! Look at every department created, it is in reaction to some problem states can't handle or the public is being ripped off, there are exceptions, but this is sadly been the case in most instances!

And yet... people continue to get ripped off... states continue to act stupidly at times... problems still happen... the Federal agency doesn't magically make that all go away, does it? You see, you Marxist Socialists believe the federal government is the solution, when history of results demonstrates, they are not the solution, and very often become the problem.

Wasn't no child left behind done by your guys?

No, it was something done by George Bush to appease liberals such as yourself, it didn't work out that way, even though he let Ted Kennedy craft it.

It wasn't Commies like me, I have always hated that program and think it should be done away with for the benefit to us all and the education system.

No, like I said, it was crafted largely by Ted Kennedy and the Teacher's Union lobbyists. I agree, it should be done away with, along with the entire DoE! Replace it with Vouchers, and let the free market handle education.

The Department of Education needs an overhaul, but I think it has it purpose and is a necessary evil, like most Federal agencies, we don't like them, but there would be no United without them! Think about that, it would be just 50 individual states, and some people like that idea by the way. Sarah and her man were exploring Alaska's succession at one time.

Well, you had to get your 'Lie of the Day' in somewhere, I suppose.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

What I was taught in school about the Civil war has drastically changed since then. I am not an authority on the subject, but wasn't it state succession that lead to the North fighting the South, it was over state right involving new territories and slaves? Please educate me on how this is revisionist and how the war was not legal?

The civil war started over economic principles. The north had spent alot of money in industrial technology whereas the south relied principally upon slave labor. The north, in trying to gain a competitive edge over the south, wanted the federal government to hit the southern slave states with additional tariffs and/or taxes in order to provide 'equal opportunity'. According the the US Constitution and the commerce clause, this would have been illegal, however, the constitution really hasn't mattered to the government since george washington left office. So, in order to get elected, Abraham Lincoln was going to do just that, apply extra taxes to the southern states, that prompted talks of secession. When some states actually did secede, that's when the propaganda machine called the civil war, 'the war to unite the states'.

If any war is legal, for that matter. Federal law is greater than state law? correct or am I wrong on this one, too? There are those who believe it should be the other way around, correct?

federal law supercedes state law only because the supreme court has decided that. Again, the constitution doesn't really matter a whole lot more to the federal government anymore, and probably to quite a few states as well. Those whom you claim that it should be the other way around are being misrepresented, either by ignorance or willful intent. They want the constitution to remain a legal document, not a living document. that means that the federal government only has that power and authority granted to them via that document. All else is to the states or the people.

 

[WinterBorn]

WB, why don't you list the things you are FOR and AGAINST, and we can go through your list. I don't want to presume what you actually support, I'd rather let you present that and we can go from there. All I know is, you cheerlead for Marxist Socialists all the time, which is a pretty good indicator you support their policies.

Wow, first it was "WB, I hate to tell you this, but you are a Marxist Socialist. You believe in Marxist Socialist policies and ideology, and support them politically".

And now its "I don't want to presume what you actually support.




Ok, here are some things I have been very supportive of:

1) 2nd Amendment Rights
2) Fair Tax Act
3) Gay Marriage
4) Crimson Tide football
5) Separation of church & state
6) Equality


Does that help? Just because I call bullshit where I see it does not mean I support either side of an argument. Sometimes its just a low tolerance for bullshit.

 

[Phantasmal]

It's against the US Constitution AND Federal law. We don't need a US Dept. of Ed to protect us against things that are already against Federal law and the Constitution. It's kind of a really stupid 'point' to try and make, but you gave it a shot, didn't you?



You feel? What the fuck do YOUR feelings have to do with the knowledge and education MY child receives? Do you want YOUR child educated based on MY feelings of what they should or shouldn't know? You can say ID isn't science, but evolution fails to explain origin. When we teach children about the origins of life, we should at least teach them ID is a theory people have, whether or not it has scientific basis or not (which I happen to believe it does). I haven't said that we shouldn't teach people about the theory of evolution, I believe we should teach children EVERYTHING! We shouldn't pick and choose what they learn!




And yet... people continue to get ripped off... states continue to act stupidly at times... problems still happen... the Federal agency doesn't magically make that all go away, does it? You see, you Marxist Socialists believe the federal government is the solution, when history of results demonstrates, they are not the solution, and very often become the problem.



No, it was something done by George Bush to appease liberals such as yourself, it didn't work out that way, even though he let Ted Kennedy craft it.



No, like I said, it was crafted largely by Ted Kennedy and the Teacher's Union lobbyists. I agree, it should be done away with, along with the entire DoE! Replace it with Vouchers, and let the free market handle education.



Well, you had to get your 'Lie of the Day' in somewhere, I suppose.

So, we don't need police to protect us, either, we have the laws! Everyone will just read them and comply, right?

They were made and I am sure everyone will abide by them, right! Federal isn't perfect, but neither are the states or individuals! It is what keeps us all the on same page as in "United" otherwise, why not just be individual countries? Vouchers aren't the solution, either to education, there are many flaws in that idea!

Ted Kennedy and George didn't do me any favors! Don't pin this stupid legislation against me, I was against most of it from the start! I am for reform, but that was bad legislation, some parts good, most bad!

Not a lie, I know you think Sarah is perfect, but it is common knowledge in Alaska!

[video=metacafe;1701430/sarah_palin_alaska_first_separatist_address/]http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1701430/sarah_palin_alaska_first_separatist_address/"[/video]

 

[SmarterthanYou]

So, we don't need police to protect us, either, we have the laws! Everyone will just read them and comply, right?

The police are not there to protect you. I wish people would learn that.

They were made and I am sure everyone will abide by them, right! Federal isn't perfect, but neither are the states or individuals! It is what keeps us all the on same page as in "United"

how's that working out for us?

 

[Phantasmal]

The police are not there to protect you. I wish people would learn that.

how's that working out for us?

Then I shouldn't call them when someone is breaking into my house?

 

[Phantasmal]

Then I shouldn't call them when someone is breaking into my house?

Why is it in the motto, to protect and serve? I guess I do need a gun...

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Then I shouldn't call them when someone is breaking into my house?

no, you should call them after you shoot the intruder. your family safety comes first and foremost. when seconds count, the police are only minutes away....usually arriving in time to draw chalk outlines around your murdered and raped wife and daughters.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

So, we don't need police to protect us, either, we have the laws! Everyone will just read them and comply, right?

They were made and I am sure everyone will abide by them, right!

Yeah Rana, that's what I said, I don't think we should have police! ...You goofy idiot! How about STOP the distortion machine for a moment, and be honest about what I said, instead of dreaming up this ridiculous nonsense.

Federal isn't perfect, but neither are the states or individuals! It is what keeps us all the on same page as in "United" otherwise, why not just be individual countries?

Actually, that is exactly how the founding fathers intended us to be! Individual "states" (which are countries elsewhere), united under the principles articulated in the Constitution.

Vouchers aren't the solution, either to education, there are many flaws in that idea!

There are no flaws in that idea, except that it wouldn't help the Teacher's Unions, who are big contributors to the DNC, who's butt your head happens to be up. The solution to lower cost and higher quality education, is the capitalist free market system, just as that is the solution for almost everything. Instead of having schools full of tenured teachers who can't be fired, and perpetually declining academic standards that are rewarded each year with even more money to bloat themselves, you would have schools competing for your tax dollars by offering a better 'product' to the consumer. Bad teachers would be culled, good teachers compensated accordingly. But then... children might actually LEARN in school, and there is an advantage to Marxist Socialism to keep the population stupid. I see why you would be opposed.

Ted Kennedy and George didn't do me any favors! Don't pin this stupid legislation against me, I was against most of it from the start! I am for reform, but that was bad legislation, some parts good, most bad!

I didn't bring it up, you did! I just pointed out, it was crafted by Ted Kennedy.... a liberal democrat. In fact, it's one of the main beefs I had with Bush. I voted for a man who promised to give us a vouchers program, and NCLB is what we got instead.

Not a lie, I know you think Sarah is perfect, but it is common knowledge in Alaska!

All you ever do is lie, toots. I've got your number. It's okay though, we know and understand that Marxist Socialists HAVE to lie, that's the only way to implement your plans.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Then I shouldn't call them when someone is breaking into my house?

no, you should call them after you shoot the intruder. your family safety comes first and foremost. when seconds count, the police are only minutes away....usually arriving in time to draw chalk outlines around your murdered and raped wife and daughters.

 

[Cypress]

Winterborne, I hate to tell you this, but you are a Marxist Socialist. .

Holy crap, not only has Dixie reinvented the mathematical definition of 1/3, but he's completely redefined the political spectrum, datumed and calibrated to extreme tea bagging.

If a moderate like WB is a socialist-marxist, than I must be a Stalinist. And my liberal canadian, danish, and norwegian buddies must be overt Maoists.

Good work, Dixie.

Later, comrade!

 

[tinfoil]

Uh, no dude. You haven't seen one thing that says the tea party movement supports eliminating social security or even touching medicaid or medicare. That's the whole argument people like Mott have made that they haven't made any specific proposals.

So please save your they're pushing Grandma off the cliff rhetoric of killing the safety net.

Like we've been saying...They believe their own strawman arguments.

 

[Phantasmal]

Like we've been saying...They believe their own strawman arguments.

You two should check out Joe Miller then, he has some ideas on those issues!

"Unemployment benefits, Social Security and Medicare are not constitutional, according to the man likely to win the Republican Senate nomination in Alaska."

He wants to return to Constitutional purity! and don't touch the military!

 

[cawacko]

Interesting. Just read a little bit about the guy. Says he favors removing the federal government as the provider of social security benefits and giving that power to the states. Also says he would not cut S.S. or Medicare benefits for current retirees.

I like a lot of what he's proposing. Don't know if a lot of what he wants can ever get passed in the Senate but I like his attitude. If he does win the Senate seat I hope someone in Alaska (or anywhere really) tracks what he's proposing now vs. how he votes to see if he is consistent with his word.

 

[Phantasmal]

Interesting. Just read a little bit about the guy. Says he favors removing the federal government as the provider of social security benefits and giving that power to the states. Also says he would not cut S.S. or Medicare benefits for current retirees.

I like a lot of what he's proposing. Don't know if a lot of what he wants can ever get passed in the Senate but I like his attitude. If he does win the Senate seat I hope someone in Alaska (or anywhere really) tracks what he's proposing now vs. how he votes to see if he is consistent with his word.

The talk is nuts for a state that needs Federal aide. You apparently are not aware that half of the state's population lives in the "Bush".

They are Alaska natives.

Does he also think that woman shouldn't vote because it was not in the original FF's Constitution? I hate people who say things like it wasn't in the original Constitution, dumb asses!

I am very wary of guys who like the military and hate the social programs which benefit their constituents! This really is a class race, and when the natives figure it out, they will be very angry!

I still like you Cawacko, even if you are a Tea bagger.

 

[cawacko]

The talk is nuts for a state that needs Federal aide. You apparently are not aware that half of the state's population lives in the "Bush".

They are Alaska natives.

Does he also think that woman shouldn't vote because it was not in the original FF's Constitution? I hate people who say things like it wasn't in the original Constitution, dumb asses!

I am very wary of guys who like the military and hate the social programs which benefit their constituents! This really is a class race, and when the natives figure it out, they will be very angry!

I still like you Cawacko, even if you are a Tea bagger.

I found this on his website. Now I usually have trouble giving much credence to what's on a politicians website because I trust very little of what they say and I'm not going to start trusting now. However he claims here he'll still bring in the pork. It's obviously up to each individual to determine whether they believe him or not.

http://joemiller.us/press/miller-sets-record-straight-on-federal-spending