Do most Christians even understand their own religion?

AProudLefty said:
Nope. The word "sodomy" didn't even mean anal sex. And there is no mention of abortion in the Bible.
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I agree with you on so much, I almost want to abandon this area of discussion.

And your wording is such that I am not sure if you are saying:

Early Christians did not put as much emphasis on homosexuality and abortion as present day Christians do.

or

Homosexuality and abortion were not problems back when Christianity was in its infancy.

I disagree with both of those, although much more with the second.

If you want to discuss it, we can do so. But I want to establish that I agree with you on so much in the political realm, I almost hate doing it.
 
Frank Apisa said:
I agree with you on so much, I almost want to abandon this area of discussion.

And your wording is such that I am not sure if you are saying:

Early Christians did not put as much emphasis on homosexuality and abortion as present day Christians do.

or

Homosexuality and abortion were not problems back when Christianity was in its infancy.

I disagree with both of those, although much more with the second.

If you want to discuss it, we can do so. But I want to establish that I agree with you on so much in the political realm, I almost hate doing it.
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That's okay. I've agreed with the most egregious of the posters and disagreed with the most sensible posters. As they love to say, "fuck your feelings". ;)

The first one is pretty much what I was saying. I doubt the Gnostics cared much about homosexuality and abortion.

The word "sodomy" was redefined to mean gay anal sex much later.
 
AProudLefty said:
That's okay. I've agreed with the most egregious of the posters and disagreed with the most sensible posters. As they love to say, "fuck your feelings". ;)

The first one is pretty much what I was saying. I doubt the Gnostics cared much about homosexuality and abortion.

The word "sodomy" was redefined to mean gay anal sex much later.
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Okay, we will discuss.

The earliest "Christians" were Jews...almost to a man. Until Paul started proselytizing among the "heathens"...they were ALL Jews. And they ALL considered homosexual activity to be an abomination...because the god they worshiped considered homosexual activity to be an abomination...worthy of death. What "sodomy" meant means nothing. It was the nebulous male "homosexual activity" that was in question...and it was condemned in the most egregious way possible...a condemnation to death. Leviticus 20:13

Jesus is reported to insist that he was not here to change the law...so that law stayed in effect. Matthew 5:17ff

Abortion was rife...the second oldest profession, occasioned by the oldest. The silence of Jesus in this regard at least intimates that he saw nothing wrong with it.
 
Frank Apisa said:
Okay, we will discuss.

The earliest "Christians" were Jews...almost to a man. Until Paul started proselytizing among the "heathens"...they were ALL Jews. And they ALL considered homosexual activity to be an abomination...because the god they worshiped considered homosexual activity to be an abomination...worthy of death. What "sodomy" meant means nothing. It was the nebulous male "homosexual activity" that was in question...and it was condemned in the most egregious way possible...a condemnation to death. Leviticus 20:13

Jesus is reported to insist that he was not here to change the law...so that law stayed in effect. Matthew 5:17ff

Abortion was rife...the second oldest profession, occasioned by the oldest. The silence of Jesus in this regard at least intimates that he saw nothing wrong with it.
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Ezekiel 16:49-50
New International Version
49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen."

No mention of homosexuality.

As to the Leviticus laws, those were the health codes. They wandered in the desert and semen and water were precious. See Onan as an example.

Notice that those laws did not directly address homosexuality itself, just the act of wasting semen during anal sex? (One has to wonder why there is no mention of an anal sex with a woman)
 
AProudLefty said:
Ezekiel 16:49-50
New International Version
49 “‘Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen."
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You seem particularly proud that you understand the etymology of the word "sodomy." Most intelligent people know its etymology...and are not especially proud that they know something any intelligent person should know.

No mention of homosexuality.
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"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be
put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their
lives."
Leviticus 20:13

No mention of homosexuality here either! In fact, no mention of homosexual activity either.

BUT only an idiot would not understand what is being proscribed.



As to the Leviticus laws, those were the health codes. They wandered in the desert and semen and water were precious. See Onan as an example.
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C'mon! There is no doubt whatsoever what is being proscribed in Leviticus 20:13...nor the punishment expected.

Notice that those laws did not directly address homosexuality itself, just the act of wasting semen during anal sex? (One has to wonder why there is no mention of an anal sex with a woman)
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Gimme a break. It was NOT "just the act of wasting semen during anal sex." (I do not understand your question mark punctuation here.)

And homosexual activity is not limited to just anal sex.
 
AProudLefty said:
The Jews? Unfortunately yes.
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"Christians" were adherents of the teaching of Jesus.

The early Christians were ALL Jews. Every one of them. The gentiles did not enter the picture until Paul came along...and Paul was late coming to the party.
 
New Testament was written in Greek.

Greek has a more sophisticated vocabulary for expressing theological matters than did other languages.*

Your garden variety bible thumper believes they have read the New Testament, when they actually haven't.

They are reading a pale and imprecise translation in a vernacular language.



* Source: William Cook, professor of religious history, State University of New York
 
Jets at Miami 1:00 game.

Funko-Pop-Waterboy-Vinyl-Figures-thumb-140.jpg


In PA he fell asleep behind the wheel. Give me 100 times on the win and the over. It’s an ash tray.
You don’t do it in your house but you want to do it here.


He likes to mock me. But he doesn’t understand what was the
circumstance when it happened?

BreakawayGoodCoach.jpg


I lined up against a guy with one arm. I blew him out every play. They took him out of the game.
At the end of the season they told me I lost the league hart award to the guy with one arm.

Salutatorian ~ I can’t even spell it. ;)
 
Cypress said:
I am pretty sure Jesus never said anything explicitly about abortion or gays.
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skipping straight to the punch line...

He didn't need to say anything about it as it was already defined an sin as was so much else.
He didn't invent Christianity because he was a jew and made no effort to be anything other than a jew.
But he did claim to be the Messiah the jews were waiting for.
They were not ok with this. Their reasons were their own.
The rest is history.

All the various denominations and sects have their problems mainly because they all have their own take on things. The one thing many fail to account for is that none of them are necessary as salvation comes solely from Christ Jesus, not from any man, idol, building or rite.

So put your faith in the Savior, ascribe to any sect that is comfortable for you (or none at all) and you will be in good hands.
 
BidenPresident said:
He did not talk much about what many Christians obsess on: Family relations and being married, abortion, gays.
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Because they were already addressed.
He did not invent a new list of sins nor did he declassify any existing ones. He was a jew and those things already existed and remained.
What he DID do was offer up a new Testament, a new way to salvation via his personal sacrifice.
 
Celticguy said:
skipping straight to the punch line...

He didn't need to say anything about it as it was already defined an sin as was so much else.
He didn't invent Christianity because he was a jew and made no effort to be anything other than a jew.
But he did claim to be the Messiah the jews were waiting for.
They were not ok with this. Their reasons were their own.
The rest is history.

All the various denominations and sects have their problems mainly because they all have their own take on things. The one thing many fail to account for is that none of them are necessary as salvation comes solely from Christ Jesus, not from any man, idol, building or rite.

So put your faith in the Savior, ascribe to any sect that is comfortable for you (or none at all) and you will be in good hands.
Click to expand...

My understanding is that Christianity is not a religion about Jesus' Jewish heritage.

It is about what Jesus 'life meant.

In that sense, Christianity is the religion of Paul, Augustine, and the early church fathers. Specifically, how they interpreted Jesus 'life and revelation.

To emulate Jesus meant to practice charity, mercy, humility, non-violence, pacifism, and universal love.

Salvation depends on faith and grace. Not on following the Jewish law of Torah.

In early Christianity, there was even a question whether the Jewish Tanakh even was to be considered canonical scripture.

The Jewish bible was ultimately accepted as scriptural, largely because it supposedly prophesized the life of Jesus, and because having ancient scripture as part of your new religion gave Christianity legitimacy in a Roman Empire which tended to view novel new religious cults with suspicion.

According to Paul, there was no expectation for gentiles to follow the Jewish law, even though Tanakh had good ethical wisdom in it.
 
Cypress said:
My understanding is that Christianity is not a religion about Jesus' Jewish heritage.

It is about what Jesus 'life meant.

In that sense, Christianity is the religion of Paul, Augustine, and the early church fathers. Specifically, how they interpreted Jesus 'life and revelation.

To emulate Jesus meant to practice charity, mercy, humility, non-violence, pacifism, and universal love.

Salvation depends on faith and grace. Not on following the Jewish law of Torah.

In early Christianity, there was even a question whether the Jewish Tanakh even was to be considered canonical scripture.

The Jewish bible was ultimately accepted as scriptural, largely because it supposedly prophesized the life of Jesus, and because having ancient scripture as part of your new religion gave Christianity legitimacy in a Roman Empire which tended to view novel new religious cults with suspicion.

According to Paul, there was no expectation for gentiles to follow the Jewish law, even though Tanakh had good ethical wisdom in it.
Click to expand...

Well Jesus upon granting forgiveness would tell them to go forth and sin no more.
Sin was defined already so no real question about that.
But you DO have to repent your sins to obtain your salvation.
 
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