Does anyone agree with the $700 bailout?

Obfuscate said:
We made money off S&L's!

I still can't believe Superfreak sees a Keynesian style multiplier in the Government buying debt no one wants.
Click to expand...

I can't believe you are so childish that you continue with comments like the above without enlightening all of us on these "costs" that I am supposedly ignoring.

Why do you continue to duck out of answering?

yes, that is rhetorical.
 
Obfuscate said:
Fun thing I got:

I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a We Deserve It Dividend.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up..

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We Deserve It Dividend.

Of course, it would NOT be tax free.

So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.

That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.

A husband and wife team has $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads

Put away money for college - it'll be there

Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car - create jobs

Invest in the market - capital drives growth

Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else

Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And, of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ("vote buy") economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U.S. Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it.

Sell off its parts.

Let American General go back to being American General.

Sell off the real estate.

Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion

We Deserve It Dividend more than do the geniuses at A IG or in Washington DC.

And remember, The Birk plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

Ahhh...I feel so much better getting that off my chest.

Kindest personal regards,

Birk

T. J. Birkenmeier, A Creative Guy & Citizen of the Republic

PS: Feel free to pass this along to your pals as it's either good for a laugh or a tear or a very sobering thought on how to best use $85 Billion!!
Click to expand...
Before you get too excited. $85 billion divided by 200 million people is only $425 a person, NOT $425,000

But I still like your plan, I just prefer to call them "tax cuts".
 
Superfreak said:
LMAO... so its "smart" when Warren Buffett does it... but if the government does indeed get equity in Wall Street as a result of this plan... that is not????

Idiot. No wonder you kept ducking that question. You knew you couldn't justify your position. Moron.
Click to expand...


Man you're a stupid fuck. Buffet is investing in Goldman BECAUSE the government is BUYING their BAD DEBT. Holy shit are you dense. Keep on making up phoney numbers you pull out of your ass and using basic math to justify them. Plus S & L's we made money still right? LOL..
 
LadyT said:
Well, I'm never getting on board with this. I have a feeling we're going to the be losers.

(unless someone slashes my mortgage by $100k)
Click to expand...

true, those of us that were responsible will get screwed to an extent. Again, we don't have to refi the mortgages. I was simply trying to show the two clowns HOW someone could make money off of this.
 
Watermark said:
Volker, Greenspan, and Bernanke aren't idiots. I do hold a lot of trust in them. I think their arguments are good and I'm glad that they see that the do-nothing approach isn't a good one.
Click to expand...
I thought Obfuscate argued Volcker would have been against this by his actions in the 80's? I am always more sceptical of government officials in power so Bernanke I don't trust completely. If there was a recession he would be out of a job, but if there is something worse far down the road it might not affect him as badly as he could be gone by then and had his time.
Not trying to sound conspirational, but he has a bias for this to be better in the short term.
Greenspan has cautioned against the bailout no?

"Even former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan hascautioned against bailouts such as the Bush Administration is nowchampioning for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac."
http://www.bobbarr2008.com/press-releases/123/barr-blasts-latest-government-bailout/
 
Obfuscate said:
Man you're a stupid fuck. Buffet is investing in Goldman BECAUSE the government is BUYING their BAD DEBT. Holy shit are you dense. Keep on making up phoney numbers you pull out of your ass and using basic math to justify them. Plus S & L's we made money still right? LOL..
Click to expand...

Why is he doing so dumbshit?

Because once the debt is off their balance sheets the stocks will go up. Which is why, dumbshit, the government plan should include equity in those stocks. Do you get it now dumbshit? Do you comprehend that the government will make the same fucking percentage as Buffett if they TOO have equity ownership?

The numbers were an EXAMPLE you ignorant fuck. Run the numbers using any average you want. I even used YOUR 50% decline in home value number and it STILL fucking works. But you will continue pretending it doesn't rather than showing us how smart you are by showing where those numbers are incorrect.

Won't you dumbshit?
 
Obfuscate said:
I already offered to make a bet. But I'm sure you don't even believe the nonsense you're saying.
Click to expand...

Yes, you offered to make a bet... big man.... now show where the numbers are wrong. Can you do that dumbshit? Because up till now, you have simply been ducking out of that. Instead you result to 'u iz a liar'. Great debating technique. Show me where the numbers are wrong dumbass.

Again... I even used YOUR 50% number. It still works.

As for the bet, I am not about to bet until I see what they actually DO. Thus far it is all talk out of DC.

But you are too ignorant to realize that as well.... aren't you dumbshit?
 
Yeah, Wall Street folks like Buffet will gain and the tax payer gets fucked. That's the whole point donkey. Your point is that the Government will make money off the worst assets on these banks books. Stick to your story.
 
Obfuscate said:
Yeah, Wall Street folks like Buffet will gain and the tax payer gets fucked. That's the whole point donkey. Your point is that the Government will make money off the worst assets on these banks books. Stick to your story.
Click to expand...

Go back and try READING dumbshit. I have stated all along that they can make money on BOTH the equity positions (that I stated they NEED to be sure is a part of the deal) AND on the debt positions.

You on the other hand continue to duck both....

Address these oh enlightened dumbshit.....

WILL the government make money on the equity positions???/ YES OR NO????

Show us all enlightened one... where in my numbers am I wrong. You keep SAYING that I am wrong... but refuse to show us WHERE the numbers are wrong. WHY is that dumbshit?
 
Make the bet, time will prove your numbers are wrong when the taxpayer losses shitloads of money. I'm not breaking down your made up numbers like I'm in a high school econ 101 class. If you want to believe in free lunch nonsense go ahead. Time will prove how stupid and wrong you are here.
 
Obfuscate said:
Yeah, Wall Street folks like Buffet will gain and the tax payer gets fucked. That's the whole point donkey. Your point is that the Government will make money off the worst assets on these banks books. Stick to your story.
Click to expand...


I'm not as well versed on the details as I'd like to be, but the idea that government will certainly make money on these assets is tenuous at best even on a long-term perspective. The main problem being that there is no way to determine the actual value of the assets since there is no way to determine the actual value of the underlying properties.

If the government takes them at too high a value it gets screwed, but it has to pay decent money for them for the plan to work. I don't have much faith.
 
So far Superfreak has told me on this site that Inflation has to do with gas prices {same theory as unions cause inflation} and now he's trying to argue that the Government will make money buying the worse debt no one wants a part of. What a economic powerhouse you are.
 
Obfuscate said:
Make the bet, time will prove your numbers are wrong when the taxpayer losses shitloads of money. I'm not breaking down your made up numbers like I'm in a high school econ 101 class. If you want to believe in free lunch nonsense go ahead. Time will prove how stupid and wrong you are here.
Click to expand...

translation: "I've got nothing, I am just going to continue to pretend I can't comprehend basic math and resort to calling SF a liar... because, well, thats all I got at this point. I just hope no one notices that I once again am ducking any attempt at answering his questions"
 
Are there other private investors other than Buffett who will not receive a guarantee from government that they will get good payback, but whom still chose to buy?
 
Superfreak said:
translation: "I've got nothing, I am just going to continue to pretend I can't comprehend basic math and resort to calling SF a liar... because, well, thats all I got at this point. I just hope no one notices that I once again am ducking any attempt at answering his questions"
Click to expand...

your errors have been pointed out. You pulled numbers out of your ass. It's simple.
 
Super, I hear what you're saying about there not being enough private available capital out there to buy this and that's why it's not happening, but shouldn't we be seeing some more private capital buying some of this than we have, like at least $100 billion?
 
Dungheap said:
I'm not as well versed on the details as I'd like to be, but the idea that government will certainly make money on these assets is tenuous at best even on a long-term perspective. The main problem being that there is no way to determine the actual value of the assets since there is no way to determine the actual value of the underlying properties.

If the government takes them at too high a value it gets screwed, but it has to pay decent money for them for the plan to work. I don't have much faith.
Click to expand...

As I stated before, yes it certainly depends on how the final deal is structured. But if you look at the default rates among sub primes... if the top range is 60-65 (for the record I support lower... but the top of these subprimes are selling around 65-70 right now) and the bottom trash (which is pricing 15-30 cents) is picked up around market rates, they will be hard pressed to lose.

As for the equity... as you mentioned earlier, profitting here also depends on the valuations used for the equity ownership or the warrants. But both provide the ability for the goverment to make money off of this.

If they do this correctly, the shareholders take the hit... not the taxpayers. That said... yes, I am assuming the idiots in DC understand enough about pricing that they don't get shafted. Big assumption... I admit that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top