Donut Shop Worker Refuses to Be on Camera with JD Vance During Campaign Stop

Nordberg said:
Walz went to a donut shop lately. He treated the workers with respect, shaking hands with the whole staff and wishing them well. He was polite and gregarious. He did not make the workers feel like underlings. Vance could not hide his disdain for the workers.
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Did Walz regale them with lies about his military service?

:facepalm:
 
NiftyNiblick said:
You make a very good point, C.
It makes the case for not generalizing too much.

Idiots like Vance, Cruz, Hawley and others have diplomas from outstanding schools ,
schools that I highly respect,
despite all needing to be institutionalized as individual people.

Walz was an outstanding choice because he is the total opposite from me.
He's not a big city guy.
He likes flannel shirts. not expensive Italian tasseled loafers.
He was a Middle American teacher, a football coach, and wasn't DRAFTED into the military.
He changes his own flat tires.
He probably even goes to church.

He looks just like the kind of goobers of whom I make fun, not always justly.

But guess what?
He's a great guy.
He's devoted to service.
He believes in the same role of government that I do.

He forced me to open my eyes when it's not my inclination to do so.

And now, he'll help make middle-Americans realize that you can look like "Joe Sixpack,"
be the kind of guy that they would like,
only now realize that somebody like that can have an open mind for modern, progressive thought.

Walz was a brilliant choice for Harris because Ms. Harris is a lot smarter than I am,
and even at my age, with nearly eight decades on my odometer,
she's able to show me things.
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All I can say is
:hand: :hand: :hand:
 
TOP said:
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Oops. Teechur cant put snark up. :laugh:

What your post looks like:

bL7S5jG.jpg
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Well Wacko Waltz is half right. Vance is what here in the Midwest is called a Butternut. That is folks who have emigrated from the South to the Northern side of the Ohio River Valley and their descendants. They’re mainly of Scot’s-Irish descent and make up the majority of the Working class in southern Ohio, Indiana and Illinois. However they also tend not to assimilate well into Midwestern culture and generally maintain their Southern white poor/working class culture. They are called Butternuts as they were some of the first emigrants to settle on the Northern side of the Ohio River in the late 18th century and had a tradition of staining their clothes with sap oils they would extract from nuts of the White Walnut tree (aka the Butternut Tree) which gave their clothes a distinct brownish yellow color that became famous with Confederate troops during The Civil War.

Today they are commonly called Hillbillies but that’s a bit of a misnomer as the phrase “Hillbilly” originated here in Ohio (as did the welcoming phrase “Howdy”) as a pejorative phrase to describe rural ingnoramuses from michigan like PiMP due to their practice of cultivating beans on hillocks.

So yes Butternuts are true Midwesterners but the Midwest itself is split into two distinct regions. The Ohio Valley Region (Butternut country) and the Great Lakes region. Vance is from the former and Waltz is from the later.

Interestingly the Ohio River Valleys reputation as the last great bastion of the anal retentive conservative is not due to the Butternut population but from the German immigrants who came in mass during the late 19th century and brought their durm and strang authoritarianism with them, as well as, their innate distrust of Democracy .
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Thanks. Just loved this colorfully-told bit of history I didn't know about. I was born in Ohio but grew up and lived for 55 years in Missouri. There is a huge difference between the "Midwesterners" who we live amongst now in Northern MI, and the ones in Missouri. It's more like being from different countries than just a regional thing.
 
cawacko said:
Enjoyed reading this. Thanks for the history lesson.

From strictly a political perspective Walz' statement seems more an inside baseball type reference then. Do you think the people Walz was targeting with that statement feel strongly about it and (similar to say a LA - SF rivalry) will view Vance negatively as a result?

And leaving aside your personal feelings about Vance what did you think of the implication that a true Midwesterner wouldn't go to an Ivy League school?
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Oh I thought highly of Vance until he became a Trumpster. I am very familiar with the Middletown Briar Hopper culture from that area and I have little regard for them in they have been some of the biggest low life’s I’ve ever known. For Vance to have escaped the poverty trap of that culture to the extent he has is a remarkable and inspirational achievement. Having said that he has little in the way of significant practical experience in politics, legislative experience or executive experience. Of all the four candidates (Harris, Trump, Vance and Waltz) Vance has the most prestigious academic credentials graduating from OSU summa cum laude in three years with a dual major then a JD from Yale.

However of the four he is by far the least experienced in Politics and Executive Management as he was only elected to his first office two years ago and he has no significant executive experience.

As for Waltz mud slinging that’s just exactly what it is and it’s not something I would ever take seriously. Is Vance a true Midwesterner? Yes of course he is. Does he come from the absolute lowest socio-economic class in the Midwest? Absolutely. Nothing is lower in the Midwest than a hillbilly. Is his rise from the lowest class to the political class a remarkable accomplishment? Absolutely.

Is Vance by experience the least qualified to be President? He sure is. His lack of experience at an executive level and in Foreign Affairs something to consider? It certainly is as executive ability and practical knowledge of foreign affairs are the two most important qualifications for President. Waltz is also inexperienced in Foreign affairs too. Though as a Governor he still has more experience in foreign affairs than Vance.

To be honest though some of our best Presidents seriously lacked either formal education or executive experience. George Washington had little in the way of formal education as did Lincoln. Truman didn’t have much of a curriculum vitae either. No University education or Executive experience and achieved political office through one of the most corrupt political machine bosses in American history. He’s also consistently rated as one of our top five Presidents.

But to answer your question I don’t think Waltz ad hom on Vance amounts to anything of significance.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Thanks. Just loved this colorfully-told bit of history I didn't know about. I was born in Ohio but grew up and lived for 55 years in Missouri. There is a huge difference between the "Midwesterners" who we live amongst now in Northern MI, and the ones in Missouri. It's more like being from different countries than just a regional thing.
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Which is what I was pointing out. Missourians are mainly Ohio Valley Midwesterners whereas the folks from that state up north are Great Lakes region Midwesterners. Great Lakes Midwesterners are typically viewed as the stereotype of Midwesterners where as the Butternuts of the Ohio Valley region are often mistakenly stereotyped as Southerners.

When I was working in Arkansas, a Southern State I worked with a guy from the Missouri bootleg who put the butter in Butternut. During a Lunch break he was talking smack about being a Southerner. I responded by pointing out that he lived in Missouri and was therefore a damned Yankee. He took great exception to my comment and even my co-workers from Arkansas gave me a curious look. He tried to explain to the rest of the fellows that he was from the Bootleg of Missouri which was south of the Mason Dixon line thus making him a Southerner. One of the fellows from Arkansas said “He’s got a good point there.” To which I replied to him “Don’t listen to that damned Yankee. Y’all know how they lie!”. To which all the guys from Arkansas nodded in agreement with my logic. After that they started referring to the fella from Missouri as “That Damned Yankee.” He was not amused. LOL
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Oh I thought highly of Vance until he became a Trumpster. I am very familiar with the Middletown Briar Hopper culture from that area and I have little regard for them in they have been some of the biggest low life’s I’ve ever known. For Vance to have escaped the poverty trap of that culture to the extent he has is a remarkable and inspirational achievement. Having said that he has little in the way of significant practical experience in politics, legislative experience or executive experience. Of all the four candidates (Harris, Trump, Vance and Waltz) Vance has the most prestigious academic credentials graduating from OSU summa cum laude in three years with a dual major then a JD from Yale.

However of the four he is by far the least experienced in Politics and Executive Management as he was only elected to his first office two years ago and he has no significant executive experience.

As for Waltz mud slinging that’s just exactly what it is and it’s not something I would ever take seriously. Is Vance a true Midwesterner? Yes of course he is. Does he come from the absolute lowest socio-economic class in the Midwest? Absolutely. Nothing is lower in the Midwest than a hillbilly. Is his rise from the lowest class to the political class a remarkable accomplishment? Absolutely.

Is Vance by experience the least qualified to be President? He sure is. His lack of experience at an executive level and in Foreign Affairs something to consider? It certainly is as executive ability and practical knowledge of foreign affairs are the two most important qualifications for President. Waltz is also inexperienced in Foreign affairs too. Though as a Governor he still has more experience in foreign affairs than Vance.

To be honest though some of our best Presidents seriously lacked either formal education or executive experience. George Washington had little in the way of formal education as did Lincoln. Truman didn’t have much of a curriculum vitae either. No University education or Executive experience and achieved political office through one of the most corrupt political machine bosses in American history. He’s also consistently rated as one of our top five Presidents.

But to answer your question I don’t think Waltz ad hom on Vance amounts to anything of significance.
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Even when I disagree with you I respect you for being honest and being real. Again, I appreciate the response.

I appreciate that you could be honest about laying out Vance's backstory while acknowledging you wouldn't vote for him. (It's interesting to hear people argue he's had things handed to him in life.)

As far as Vance goes politically I share some of your beliefs. I read Hillbilly Elegy and was very impressed by him. Once he jumped on the Trump train and stated he didn't care for Regan Republicans like myself I was no longer a fan. But Vance politically is separate from Vance the person and his backstory.

And this may not be an apt analogy but growing up in Oakland around a lot of black people I heard black people talk quite a bit about what, and who, is really black. So I had that experience in my mind when I heard Walz talk about Vance not being a Midwesterner.

In Oakland, if you became successful but were still deemed to be viewed as black then all was good. But if you went off to Wall St let's say and were thought to get too cozy around white people then you were viewed suspiciously.

I had never really thought the Midwest had a similar attitude (going back to Walz saying Vance wasn't real because he went to Yale) but you're saying that's not really the case?

Edit: And my Buckeye side said if you're going to mock him for going to an elite school then he should be mocked for going to THE Ohio State University. :)
 
cawacko said:
Even when I disagree with you I respect you for being honest and being real. Again, I appreciate the response.

I appreciate that you could be honest about laying out Vance's backstory while acknowledging you wouldn't vote for him. (It's interesting to hear people argue he's had things handed to him in life.)

As far as Vance goes politically I share some of your beliefs. I read Hillbilly Elegy and was very impressed by him. Once he jumped on the Trump train and stated he didn't care for Regan Republicans like myself I was no longer a fan. But Vance politically is separate from Vance the person and his backstory.

And this may not be an apt analogy but growing up in Oakland around a lot of black people I heard black people talk quite a bit about what, and who, is really black. So I had that experience in my mind when I heard Walz talk about Vance not being a Midwesterner.

In Oakland, if you became successful but were still deemed to be viewed as black then all was good. But if you went off to Wall St let's say and were thought to get too cozy around white people then you were viewed suspiciously.

I had never really thought the Midwest had a similar attitude (going back to Walz saying Vance wasn't real because he went to Yale) but you're saying that's not really the case?

Edit: And my Buckeye side said if you're going to mock him for going to an elite school then he should be mocked for going to THE Ohio State University. :)
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Oh that definitely happens in the Midwest. I know a crap ton of folks in Ohio who were raised in small towns who went to college, graduated, came back to their hometown only to find out that many of their local friends no longer wanted anything to do with them because they assume that now you’re a college graduate you think you’re better than them. That happened to me too.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Oh that definitely happens in the Midwest. I know a crap ton of folks in Ohio who were raised in small towns who went to college, graduated, came back to their hometown only to find out that many of their local friends no longer wanted anything to do with them because they assume that now you’re a college graduate you think you’re better than them. That happened to me too.
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Really is an interesting dynamic huh? In your case, do you feel you acted (or thought in your head) differently towards the people you knew? Or were you the same Mott and they just viewed you differently?

Did you have a sense in your neighborhood growing up of people almost not wanting others to make something of themselves?
 
cawacko said:
Really is an interesting dynamic huh? In your case, do you feel you acted (or thought in your head) differently towards the people you knew? Or were you the same Mott and they just viewed you differently?

Did you have a sense in your neighborhood growing up of people almost not wanting others to make something of themselves?
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No, I don’t think it had anything to do with my behavior so much as its that crab like mentality that exists in many communities where a lot of folks don’t want to see one of their own rise above them so they try to collectively pull you back down to their level inside the crab pot. If my metaphor confuses you, when you put a bunch of crabs in a basket and one the crsbs try to escape the other crabs will pull it back into the basket.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
No, I don’t think it had anything to do with my behavior so much as its that crab like mentality that exists in many communities where a lot of folks don’t want to see one of their own rise above them so they try to collectively pull you back down to their level inside the crab pot. If my metaphor confuses you, when you put a bunch of crabs in a basket and one the crsbs try to escape the other crabs will pull it back into the basket.
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I hear you man. It’s an interesting dynamic why human nature makes (some/many of) us like that.

Going back to my Oakland experience I’ve heard it said if you make it out of Oakland, Oakland will respect you if you don’t change. On one hand I understand what that’s implying. On the other hand if you’re moving into a new phase of your live is change necessarily bad?

I’ve told you my best friend grew up in Bucyrus. He’s done really well and has basically been in LA since we graduated. He’ll go back and visit his family, and he’s donated money to build a public basketball court in his Uncle’s honor in the Bucyrus, but I guess not going back to live there I can’t ask if he’s really experienced what you have.
 
ExpressLane said:
It's OK they would not want to be around you either. Your B.O. would drive them away.
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Sir, do you really think your 3rd grade level insults have any positive effect for you or your candidate, in terms of votes?

Let me just say, YOUR silly, hateful, and unknowing insults have the same effect on the upcoming election, as if you just shot your load across your computer screen!

Not only are your cheap insults not entertaining, they present a very BAD and negative optic for you and your kind!

This election is not a contest to see WHICH SIDE can sling the most hateful insults, it is a contest to see which candidate can make our country a more perfect union!
 
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