Drug Legalization, My Personal Opinion...

[Liberty]

Whether running around naked in public is a "federal issue" or not, is beside the point, and has nothing to do with what we are talking about. Are you going to join Dumbass in the Stupidity Parade here? I pointed out that I am in favor of "decriminalization" of pot... not "legalization" of pot... I explained the difference and why I support what I do. Damo says he would legalize pot but heavily restrict it, so that young people couldn't have easy access... and that idea works for booze and cocaine, etc... I don't think it works for pot, because any buffoon can grow a pot plant, it's not that hard to do. So far, Damo hasn't responded... the Idiot responded with some high-horse rant about freedom, and how kids wouldn't bother growing pot because it's too hard. You chime in with more Libertarian idiocy, and neither one of you are on topic anymore, you are just flailing away at me because I guess you think I am an uptight prick who wants to keep pot illegal. Read again... I want to DECRIMINALIZE it... make it to where it's not a felony to possess up to a certain amount, it's not a felony to grow a certain amount for personal use, providing you are of legal age, etc. Keep the laws on DUI, keep the laws on under-age, keep the laws on growing for distribution and selling... just decriminalize simple possession. This takes care of 98% of the problem you have with pot now, and doesn't relax regulation to the point that youth might be effected. They will still get their hands on it, they will still find a way to subvert the system, they are kids.... they always find a way.

Oh!

Well,,,,,, is running around naked in public a "federal issue" comment I made was my attempt to bring out that the fedseral government doesn't/shouldn't have the authority to prohibit. This would/should be a states rights issue.

As for the rest of what you had to say, I wasn't aware of. I'll keep it in mind. Thx!

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Oh!

Well,,,,,, is running around naked in public a "federal issue" comment I made was my attempt to bring out that the fedseral government doesn't/shouldn't have the authority to prohibit.

Well, whether the Federal or State government has a "right to prohibit" something, is really kind of up to the people to decide. The point I was making was, in a civilized society, we do have rules and boundaries/limitations to our freedoms. We don't just get to do whatever the hell we please! People who comprise the community, state, or even the nation, have the right to establish rules, boundaries, and limitations on freedom, and they have often done so over the years. Your inalienable rights do not include the right to grow cannabis.

 

[Liberty]

Well, whether the Federal or State government has a "right to prohibit" something, is really kind of up to the people to decide. The point I was making was, in a civilized society, we do have rules and boundaries/limitations to our freedoms. We don't just get to do whatever the hell we please! People who comprise the community, state, or even the nation, have the right to establish rules, boundaries, and limitations on freedom, and they have often done so over the years. Your inalienable rights do not include the right to grow cannabis.

And running people through the legal system is no different than putting jews in consentration camps because it's the law.

Slavery was accepted at one time, but that didn't make it right.

There's some big flaws in your position regarding individual rights on this issue in my opinion.

People have a God given right to legally smoke pot. (and I'm a diest minded individual)

And there's a lot of people who would trade everything (constitution, liberty for security) to mandate their will over others. Which is tyrany.

Laws are made for you and the ones you love. Not just for the person down the street.

What penalty would you prescribe for yourself, or the ones you love for a crime that has no victim, and trades all your liberties, for (no!) security?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

And running people through the legal system is no different than putting jews in consentration camps because it's the law.

Slavery was accepted at one time, but that didn't make it right.

There's some big flaws in your position regarding individual rights on this issue in my opinion.

People have a God given right to legally smoke pot. (and I'm a diest minded individual)

And there's a lot of people who would trade everything (constitution, liberty for security) to mandate their will over others. Which is tyrany.

Laws are made for you and the ones you love. Not just for the person down the street.

What penalty would you prescribe for yourself, or the ones you love for a crime that has no victim, and trades all your liberties, for (no!) security?

Liberty, I respect a lot of what you have to say, but you are on an emotive rant here, and being a pinhead. You begin by comparing the legal system to Jewish concentration camps... I mean, just think about that for a minute. Really? REALLY? I'm sorry, but I see where there is a great big huge GIANT difference in the two, and I am sorry you apparently don't.

I honestly don't think you know my position on individual rights, much less whether there are holes in my position. You certainly do NOT have the "god-given right to legally smoke pot" ...You have the god-given right to life... to liberty (*with a caveat) and the right to pursue happiness. Your right to liberty doesn't mean you get to do whatever the hell you please! It means you have the right to the same liberties other Americans have, which the society/community has determined and rectified into law. You have the right to petition for redress of your grievances, if one of those happens to be legalization of pot, you have that right, and if you find enough like-minded individuals, perhaps you can change the laws governing society on that... but for now, you simply don't have the right you claim you have.

Now... Again.... MY PERSONAL POSITION is in favor of DECRIMINALIZING pot! Did you catch that the twentieth time I've said it, or should I repeat it twenty more times? How does THAT encroach on anyone's individual liberties? How is THAT position "flawed?" MY POSITION as it concerns personal liberty is, if the people vote for it and pass it into law, so be it! We live in a democratic society, where the collective get to make the rules, they get to decide what boundaries and limits we will have on our liberties, we don't simply get to run naked in public and do whatever we feel like doing, that isn't civilized society, that is anarchy. If you can't grasp what is being said here, perhaps you need to read it over a few times before you tear off on another emotive response. I have nothing against you or your position on legalization, I just don't favor legalization, and I've stated my reasons for it. I DO FAVOR DECRIMINALIZATION.... did you catch that? Have I mentioned it before???

 

[The Dude]

conservatives are al lot like the gestapo in the issue.
They blindly follow the cartoon book allegence and ignore science, it's a war on poor people.

 

[Damocles]

Your point is well taken, a few years ago, I remember watching some kind of documentary on drugs and alcohol use among high school kids... they found the kids could get their hands on either 'poison' without much trouble, but interestingly enough, it was actually harder for them to score booze than pot, because booze required using a fake ID. It might take a couple of days to acquire the alcohol, but they could get the pot by the end of the school day.

The flaw I see in your argument is, pot is not like other drugs or alcohol, you can't grow Jack Daniels or Cocaine in your closet! How could you ever 'regulate' something that is basically a weed which can grow in the wild?

Which means zero. First you can brew your own and distill your own alcohol in your house (see bathroom gin from the prohibition days). Second, this isn't just about "pot", and finally, it only means that those willing to break the law and deal in the black market (ie those who have zero compunction to trying to get your kid addicted to their poison) are the only ones dealing it, and they ain't checking IDs.

 

[Damocles]

No, you really can't grow corn in your backyard. Corn has to be grown in large fields in order to cross-pollinate and produce. Many people do make beer and moonshine, just as many people would grow and produce pot, which is much easier to do than making beer or moonshine. The question I asked Damo is, how would you go about regulating something like that? It's really not much work to drop a few seeds in the wooded area behind my house... even a lazy pot head could probably manage that much effort.

It really doesn't, I watched my Grandfather grow a crapton of corn in his back yard for probably two decades. If you are willing to touch corn silk you can hand pollinate your corn. (My uncle used to hire college students before they created machines to do it. Sometimes there just isn't enough wind for pollination. He would hire the students to run through the fields hand pollinating his corn, of course my grandfather lived in the city, his back yard was maybe .75 acres, but he could grow an amazing amount of corn in that yard....)

 

[The Dude]

talk about pinheads pot = poison

fucking cousin marrying king

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Which means zero. First you can brew your own and distill your own alcohol in your house (see bathroom gin from the prohibition days). Second, this isn't just about "pot", and finally, it only means that those willing to break the law and deal in the black market (ie those who have zero compunction to trying to get your kid addicted to their poison) are the only ones dealing it, and they ain't checking IDs.

We're talking about the availability to underage youth, Damo. Your point is well taken on alcohol, cocaine, or other complex drugs, we can successfully regulate those, because your average teen is not going to make their own hooch or produce their own cocaine... it's just not going to happen. Mom would probably catch you hauling in sacks of yeast to your bedroom... or notice the funny smell and sounds... pot doesn't make a noise when it grows, some potting soil, water, and a grow light... that's all you need.

If you legalized pot and put an age restriction on buying it, kids wouldn't say... well darnit! Now we can't buy pot! I geuss we'll do without! The point is, you would not be able to regulate it like you do with alcohol or cocaine, because it's relatively easy to grow. The fact that it would be so easy to get around any 'restriction' or 'regulation' you could put on it, doesn't mean ZERO!

 

[The Dude]

you retarded cousin marrier, virtually not teens grow pot and very few people grow in a back yard.

Why? Flowering pot can be smelled from the street, a parent would smell in the next room.

It's much more complex than trowing a seed in soil, not that I expect knowledge from a bafoon who calls it poison.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

It really doesn't, I watched my Grandfather grow a crapton of corn in his back yard for probably two decades. If you are willing to touch corn silk you can hand pollinate your corn. (My uncle used to hire college students before they created machines to do it. Sometimes there just isn't enough wind for pollination. He would hire the students to run through the fields hand pollinating his corn, of course my grandfather lived in the city, his back yard was maybe .75 acres, but he could grow an amazing amount of corn in that yard....)

Oh, my uncle tried to grow corn in his backyard garden too, and it was the puniest ugliest looking corn you ever saw. It was edible, it just looked deformed. I guess I should have anticipated your anal-retentiveness, and stated that you can't grow corn very well in your back yard... but yes, it is possible.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

you retarded cousin marrier, virtually not teens grow pot and very few people grow in a back yard.

Why? Flowering pot can be smelled from the street, a parent would smell in the next room.

It's much more complex than trowing a seed in soil, not that I expect knowledge from a bafoon who calls it poison.

*sigh* Are you people intentionally not following the conversation here? It's like we are trying to have two different ones! What kids do now has nothing to do with what kids might do if pot were legal and prohibited to minors. The point was made, we could legalize pot and regulate/restrict it from underage kids. While that idea works fairly well for booze and other drugs, it doesn't necessarily apply to pot, because you can't plant a seed and grow a bottle of Jack Daniels!

Let's just be honest here... you really don't give two shits about kids smoking pot! All that matters to you, is your own selfish desires to see something you like made legal, and the ramifications or consequences don't matter one little bit to you.

 

[The Dude]

I know it's mainly Jesus freak conservatards like you holding up progress on the issue.
You mutha fuckers are all states rights and small gov until it butts up to your gestapo ish want to control peoples personal lives.

If a few kids attempted to grow it would be miniscule compared to the reduced street supply if legally sold like cigs. Something decrim would not do.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

I know it's mainly Jesus freak conservatards like you holding up progress on the issue.
You mutha fuckers are all states rights and small gov until it butts up to your gestapo ish want to control peoples personal lives.

If a few kids attempted to grow it would be miniscule compared to the reduced street supply if legally sold like cigs. Something decrim would not do.

First of all, you are stereotyping me. I'm not a "Jesus freak" and nothing I have proposed is "gestapo-ish". I don't want to control your personal life, that's the whole idea behind decriminalization, you would be able to live your private life any way you pleased. But here's where we get into a problem, you don't give a shit about my kids, or what they are exposed to. As long as you can get high, nothing else matters to you... it doesn't matter if it harms my kids, it doesn't matter if other people diapprove of what you do... you just want to get high.

 

[/MSG/]

Oh, my uncle tried to grow corn in his backyard garden too, and it was the puniest ugliest looking corn you ever saw. It was edible, it just looked deformed. I guess I should have anticipated your anal-retentiveness, and stated that you can't grow corn very well in your back yard... but yes, it is possible.

Nor can you grow good pot in a back yard.

 

[/MSG/]

If you legalized pot and put an age restriction on buying it, kids wouldn't say... well darnit! Now we can't buy pot! I geuss we'll do without! The point is, you would not be able to regulate it like you do with alcohol or cocaine, because it's relatively easy to grow. The fact that it would be so easy to get around any 'restriction' or 'regulation' you could put on it, doesn't mean ZERO!

But Clearly, saying "you can't have any pot at all" works wonders. That's why only 98% of teenagers have tried marijuana at least once. I mean, how much is 98% really?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

But Clearly, saying "you can't have any pot at all" works wonders. That's why only 98% of teenagers have tried marijuana at least once. I mean, how much is 98% really?

Damo and I are in agreement that we want access to children restricted. He believes we can legalize it and put an age restriction on sales, as we do with alcohol. I don't think this works as well with pot, because anyone can grow pot. Maybe not the best pot, but pot nonetheless. While his argument is sound on other drugs we've attmpted to legalize and regulate, pot is a herbal plant which is relatively easy to grow, and can be grown anywhere. Some of the best pot I have ever had, was grown inside a closet. Legalizing it, would not curtail availability to under-aged youth, as it may have with other things. From there, you have all (including Damo) twisted what I have said or distorted the argument to be something else, I favor decriminalizing pot, not legalizing it. There are dozens of reasons I hold this position, and we've not even bagan that argument, but it's the argument you believe we are having, and you are attempting to apply my comments to Damo, to an argument not being made.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Nor can you grow good pot in a back yard.

Right.. you just need a hydroponic chamber and a closet.

 

[Damocles]

We're talking about the availability to underage youth, Damo. Your point is well taken on alcohol, cocaine, or other complex drugs, we can successfully regulate those, because your average teen is not going to make their own hooch or produce their own cocaine... it's just not going to happen. Mom would probably catch you hauling in sacks of yeast to your bedroom... or notice the funny smell and sounds... pot doesn't make a noise when it grows, some potting soil, water, and a grow light... that's all you need.

If you legalized pot and put an age restriction on buying it, kids wouldn't say... well darnit! Now we can't buy pot! I geuss we'll do without! The point is, you would not be able to regulate it like you do with alcohol or cocaine, because it's relatively easy to grow. The fact that it would be so easy to get around any 'restriction' or 'regulation' you could put on it, doesn't mean ZERO!

Yeah, because no parent could possibly notice a plant growing in a room where none was before...

Another reality, the best stuff is produced on a massive scale in Canada oddly enough. It is sold because people here do not produce a product nearly as "good"...

And the last one you really should pay attention to: They could already do this, and if it were so easy to do without parental consent then it is worthless to have a law against it. It's quite literally at that point impossible to prohibit. (Of course it isn't quite that easy, because parents aren't quite a stupid or ignorant as Dixie tries to make them seem and to grow a decent marijuana plant takes more than a closet and a grow light.)

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Yeah, because no parent could possibly notice a plant growing in a room where none was before...

Another reality, the best stuff is produced on a massive scale in Canada oddly enough. It is sold because people here do not produce a product nearly as "good"...

And the last one you really should pay attention to: They could already do this, and if it were so easy to do without parental consent then it is worthless to have a law against it. It's quite literally at that point impossible to prohibit. (Of course it isn't quite that easy, because parents aren't quite a stupid or ignorant as Dixie tries to make them seem and to grow a decent marijuana plant takes more than a closet and a grow light.)

Of course they can already do it! They DO do it! You see these young dudes rolling around town on the 26" wheels... how do you think they pay for that ride? Legalizing it means, they wouldn't have to keep the hydroponic chamber in the closet anymore! As far as parents being stupid... I think parents may be some of their kids biggest customers, in some cases... our culture and society have changed.

Look... here is what I am opposed to... I don't want to see pot commercialized, marketed, sold on the store shelves and taxed like tobacco. Because, what are we going to do when government is hopelessly tied to the revenue, and scientists/doctors discover in 30 years, the prolonged chronic use of pot is just as harmful as tobacco? Will Congress get together and pass the bong around before deciding how they can't get the genie back in the bottle? Any respiration specialist will tell you the problem with pot is the delivery system, ingesting smoke (of any kind) into your lungs, is not healthy. So there's that.... And here we are having a national debate about whether the government should provide health care? Yeah, let's do something that has potential health risk! Brilliant!

Decriminalizing it, would mean that we no longer lock people up and confiscate their property, for personal possession/growing. It should NOT be a FELONY and shouldn't actually be controlled by the Federal government. If states wish to regulate personal possession or growth amounts permissible, that should be up to the states and the people to decide. It would also NOT approve pot for legal sale or distribution, you still couldn't transport it, and you couldn't go buy it at the store. My opposition is to the government entanglement in a taxable product like tobacco or alcohol, that is what I am opposed to here. I respect the personal liberty issue, and I think my solution goes a long way in securing that in spirit. You can't really legalize and regulate something that isn't regulatable.