Ethanol is retarded

uscitizen said:
Yes I agree Dave. $5 gas will really start up the conservation efforts and alternatives.

It is still too cheap for people to really do anything about it.
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I'm not so sure about that. Cars that promise 135mpg are sold out quickly. These things cost around 80,000 - 100,000 right now, but it's going to jumpstart the industry to try and make it more affordable and easier to manufacture. I've also been on this Vertical Axis Wind Turbine kick lately to power homes, and they are getting cheaper and cheaper. Thes gas prices stay at $3.00 a gallon, in five years we will have some really affordable solutions to start reducing the the amount of oil we use. If it goes to $5.00, well, I bet within a year, those things that seem to cost a lot, seem much cheaper, creating more demand. High Demand leads to need for better efficiency in production which leads to cheaper production methods which leads to cheaper prices. Still think it'll take about three years before prices being to fall, but demand will be so high that these companies will keep prices high until that wave dies down. Then they'll be able to compete with Oil.
 
uscitizen said:
I guess the next CAFE standards will include KWH/Mile ?
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I can see that happening. We'll need to know how far we can travel on the amount of power the car can hold. We still need to work on providing electricity to the grid that is cheap and clean to support a huge push for electric cars. Again, Vertical Axis Wind Turbines.. lol.
 
digital nice rant but all the alternatives combined don't even make up for the shortfall in demand growth vs domestic production decrease.
Alt energy needs all the help we can muster, ie Hillary's green collar jobs initiative.
 
Another thing is Opec has the power to crash the oil price and the alt energy industry at the drop of a hat.
 
yes Dave is focusing on one aspect which needs to be a part of the overall souoution.

however WM seems to not want to do anything until we have one perfect soloution.
If we follow WM's lead nothing will ever happen.
 
uscitizen said:
yes Dave is focusing on one aspect which needs to be a part of the overall souoution.

however WM seems to not want to do anything until we have one perfect soloution.
If we follow WM's lead nothing will ever happen.
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Of course, I don't know much about Electric Cars yet, but I know in order to power them, you need to generate more electricity into the grid. We keep using just fossil fuels, we are right back to square one, and burning oil just to generate electricity.
 
DigitalDave said:
Of course, I don't know much about Electric Cars yet, but I know in order to power them, you need to generate more electricity into the grid. We keep using just fossil fuels, we are right back to square one, and burning oil just to generate electricity.
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convert to coal electric generation in the interim.
 
DigitalDave said:
We need to start implementing solutions to provide clean energy, and keep researching electric. Vertical Axis Wind mills need to be used rather than those stupid windmills they use in windfarms that only catch wind from one direction. Leno has one on top of his huge garage. He went to PacWind. They sell smaller versions for around $3,000 and can provide 500w. Thing is only 30" in diameter! http://www.pacwind.net/#delta1
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I'll have to check that out for my mountain cabin.
 
Watermark said:
Corn takes 1 gallon of oil for every 1.2 gallon made. You just want us to be dependent on the middle east for more time because you've been bribed by oil execs. This is why you hate America and you're a globalist who just wants to continue stealing our jobs.
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The figure of 1.2 / 1 comes from a study down by Pimentel in the 1970's and updated periodically. One of the major flaws in the work is that he consistently compares combustion of ethanol in a gas engine with combustion of gas in a gas engine. In this situation, ethanol use requires more total fuel to cover the mileage. The correct comparison would be to compare ethanol in an ethanol engine to gas in a gas engine. In this situation, due primarily to higher compression ratios in the ethanol engine, the fuels are comparatively equal in miles per gallon. This raises the 1.2 / 1 ratio closer to 1.4 - 1.5 / 1.

In addition, Pimentel does not consider the use of the spent mash for other purposes. The carbohydrates have been cracked and extracted leaving a protein rich residue that is suitable for livestock feed. The displaced energy in this situation does not appear in Pimentel's work. Again, the ratio rises.

He fails to consider use of the stalks and husks as fuel in the distillation process. Ratio rises.

He considers distillation to the anhydrous grade (99.5%) rather than the azeotropic mix (95%) which can be achieved by simply boiling. An ethanol engine will operate quite well with water contents as high as 8%. Again the ratio rises.

But all in all, you are correct that ethanol in itself is not the solution. It needs to be part of a multifaceted approach. We damn well better respect the Amish, because in 100 years, we (humanity) will HAVE to reduce our (its) energy consumption to something close to solar capture.
 
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DigitalDave said:
We need to start implementing solutions to provide clean energy, and keep researching electric. Vertical Axis Wind mills need to be used rather than those stupid windmills they use in windfarms that only catch wind from one direction. Leno has one on top of his huge garage. He went to PacWind. They sell smaller versions for around $3,000 and can provide 500w. Thing is only 30" in diameter! http://www.pacwind.net/#delta1
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It puts out DC power. What good is that?
 
speed control and frequency is an issue if you are looking for AC.
the rotational speed of an alternator determines the frequency of the AC output voltage.

An alternator in a car puts out DC, but internally it is 3 phase ac.

I made a cool welder with a 130 amp alternator and an old briggs engine.

for virtually no money I have a portable stick welder.
 
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