Free Markets: Capitalism vs Socialism

Free market capitalism, or free market socialism?

  • Free market capitalism

    Votes: 5 100.0%

  • Free market socialism

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    5
Granule said:
You take the vote the closest resembles your view, Rana. Don't be such a Rune.
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she's waiting for her handlers to tell her what to think.

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But, I'd have to ask Sea Bird.

How does one get rid of 'slave wage' without regulating the economy? Then, how would those making the new minimum wage afford the products they make once the prices adjust themselves to the new market? If things cost more to make then the prices for them go up. Wouldn't the new lowest wage be 'slave wage' in this new, more expensive economy with a lower value on the dollar?
 
Sea Bird said:
Basically the same thing as free market capitalism, minus wage labor.
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Yeah, you to need to elaborate. You would not allow people to be hired for wages? You just hope that they would not be hired for wages? How would you bring about an end to wage labor and what exactly is it replaced with?
 
Sir Digby Chicken Caesar said:
Yeah, you to need to elaborate. You would not allow people to be hired for wages? You just hope that they would not be hired for wages? How would you bring about an end to wage labor and what exactly is it replaced with?
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By the elimination of wage labor, we - socialists - mean the implementation of worker owned collectives as a replacement for traditional vertically manged corporations. As to how this would be done, there's a lot of fragmentation within the left. I'm personally a fan of popular movements and the democratic process. Then there's vanguardism, which is also valid.
 
pisskop said:
she's waiting for her handlers to tell her what to think.

- - - - - -

But, I'd have to ask Sea Bird.

How does one get rid of 'slave wage' without regulating the economy? Then, how would those making the new minimum wage afford the products they make once the prices adjust themselves to the new market? If things cost more to make then the prices for them go up. Wouldn't the new lowest wage be 'slave wage' in this new, more expensive economy with a lower value on the dollar?
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What the hell are you talking about?

You eliminate the wage slave by abolishing the traditional corporation.

Eliminating wages just leads to workers being paid by their profits. Co-ops have higher productivity than vertically managed institutions. And the resulting equality leads to more circulation of wealth.
 
Sea Bird said:
What the hell are you talking about?

You eliminate the wage slave by abolishing the traditional corporation.

Eliminating wages just leads to workers being paid by their profits. Co-ops have higher productivity than vertically managed institutions. And the resulting equality leads to more circulation of wealth.
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That's redistribution, comrade. It kills motivation and creativity. America literally runs on Capitalism. It's what sets us apart. You take that away, and we're just West Western Europe.
 
Granule said:
That's redistribution, comrade. It kills motivation and creativity. America literally runs on Capitalism. It's what sets us apart. You take that away, and we're just West Western Europe.
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Wage labor puts people into jobs where the full expression of their creativity isn't realized. How does giving them the ability to express themselves within their work kill creativity?

And Europe is largely capitalist. I believe there're some social democratic capitalism-socialism hybrids, but that's about it.
 
The debate is described wrong. Our government is so controlled by big business our system should more properly be called fascism. So the title of the thread should be, "Fascism or Not Fascism?"
 
AssHatZombie said:
The debate is described wrong. Our government is so controlled by big business our system should more properly be called fascism. So the title of the thread should be, "Fascism or Not Fascism?"
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More like state capitalism in terms of economics, polyarchy in terms of politics. But this is purely theoretical. ;)
 
Here’s a simple question here for the socialist. “Is this so-called Free Market Socialism totally voluntary or is it controlled/mandated by government?”
 
Classic Liberal said:
Here’s a simple question here for the socialist. “Is this so-called Free Market Socialism totally voluntary or is it controlled/mandated by government?”
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Well, voluntary - but the the government protects the basic rights of worker-owners. So, briefly, the only real difference between the two economic systems is that free market socialism extends democracy and libertarian principals to the workplace.
 
Co ops would have to be small by nature, but oc you'd want most of the mass' focus limited to the community level.

Ill argue that such a system would disperse defense, competition, wealth too much, to the point where only the government has any real capacity to organize.

What is the function of government in this economy? And what stops them from using this organization to 'divide and conquer' the loose alliance of ex-proliteriats?

As a side note, I think the conservative movement and repubs in general is in the bind they are in because of a lack of centralized organization, and a lack of intellectualization amoungst its general body. The right has been splintered and eaten away into 'moderates' . . .
 
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