God

[Ross Dolan]

I don't think it's a good idea to hold 21st century values as the standard to judge 1st century people.

I don't think we can expect Jesus to be an active crusader for gay rights.

I think it is significant he never spoke about gays. That suggests to me he didn't consider it significant or even worth the time to merge into the moral vision he was interested in teaching

Whatever!

I am NOT making any judgements on this.

I am merely agreeing with the assertion: Not once in the Bible does Jesus ever address homosexuality...except that Matthew 5 exception of not changing any of the Old Testament laws...which essentially is agreement with them.

 

[Ross Dolan]

I really do think that this particular understanding of those verses completely glosses over the final words of each of them, which are: "I came to accomplish [the Old Testament's] purpose." [and] "...until [the Old Testament's] purpose is achieved".

This begs two questions: "What is the purpose of the Old Testament?" "How is the purpose of the Old Testament accomplished?" What's interesting is that later on in the book of Matthew (Matthew 11:13), Jesus makes another reference to the same "law and prophets" which is referenced here in Matthew 5. In Matthew 11, Jesus states: "For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John (the Baptist)"... The LAW OF MOSES prophesied?! IOW, what's being said here by Jesus is that the entirety of the OT prophetically anticipated the arrival of him and his kingdom. Now that Jesus has arrived (and lived and died and rose again), the anticipation (OT) has been fulfilled (NT).

Jesus is the true temple. Jesus is the unblemished blood sacrifice. Jesus ushered in the New Testament era of fulfillment to complete the Old Testament era of anticipation.

Another valid interpretation. One of many, though.

And if what you are suggesting here is so...why did Jesus go through such emphasis about not changing any part of the old law...not a word...not a letter of a word...not a stroke of a letter of a word?

If you are correct that it all changes...Jesus was either wrong or being deceitful. I do not see how it works any other way.

 

[Saint Guinefort]

I get no thrill out of it, I simply don’t care.

We won’t care about those that didn’t make it once we get to Heaven, God tells us so.

So why would I care now?

Sure. Sure.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

All of which came down to the nasty Republicans killing off 2% of the US population for political reasons while the Democrats were simply defending their home states. Sad.

Another valid interpretation. One of many, though.

And if what you are suggesting here is so...why did Jesus go through such emphasis about not changing any part of the old law...not a word...not a letter of a word...not a stroke of a letter of a word?

If you are correct that it all changes...Jesus was either wrong or being deceitful. I do not see how it works any other way.

He said it would not change until the prophecy was fulfilled.

That prophecy was his arrival and death.

The OT tells us this.

Upon His death a new covenant was formed

 

[Ross Dolan]

He said it would not change until the prophecy was fulfilled.

That prophecy was his arrival and death.

The OT tells us this.

Upon His death a new covenant was formed

Actually he said, "Until Heaven and Earth pass away, not the smallest letter of the law, not the smallest part of a letter, shall be done away with until it all come true.

Granted, kind of a mixed bag there. Not the clearest comment anyone has ever made by a long shot.

But it seems to me the speaker, Jesus, was either trying to stress that no changes will happen...or that he was juiced up on whatever passed for Vodka at that time.

"Until Heaven and Earth pass away!!!"

If I were attempting to communicate, "It is all done"...would it make much sense to say, "It will only be done when the Sun consumed the Earth?"

Maybe you are correct, but the interpretation Christians are giving seems to be extremely contrived. And that seems to be the case on a number of happenings in the Bible. So much so, that if I had to choose whether they are making accurate, realistic appraisals of the situations...or simply looking to shoehorn the stories into present day narratives...I would quickly choose the latter over the former.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The planet will eventually be sucked into the sun,
and some time after that,
the sun will burn out.

However, that scenario is no more dire to me
than the existence of a Trump presidency and hip hop music at the same time.

So far, we've only cleaned up the Trump presidency part,
and even it still threatens to reappear.

Also, the trumpanzees who crawled out from under their rocks with his presidency
are still slithering about in the open either way.

Many of them are listening to country music,
which is nearly as bad as the hip hop
to which too many of my urban neighbors listen.

Mozart, Sinatra, and Charlie Parker only seem to be coming through my windows.

You worry too much, neef

 

[Tinkerpeach]

All of which came down to the nasty Republicans killing off 2% of the US population for political reasons while the Democrats were simply defending their home states. Sad.

Actually he said, "Until Heaven and Earth pass away, not the smallest letter of the law, not the smallest part of a letter, shall be done away with until it all come true.

Granted, kind of a mixed bag there. Not the clearest comment anyone has ever made by a long shot.

But it seems to me the speaker, Jesus, was either trying to stress that no changes will happen...or that he was juiced up on whatever passed for Vodka at that time.

"Until Heaven and Earth pass away!!!"

If I were attempting to communicate, "It is all done"...would it make much sense to say, "It will only be done when the Sun consumed the Earth?"

Maybe you are correct, but the interpretation Christians are giving seems to be extremely contrived. And that seems to be the case on a number of happenings in the Bible. So much so, that if I had to choose whether they are making accurate, realistic appraisals of the situations...or simply looking to shoehorn the stories into present day narratives...I would quickly choose the latter over the former.

Well Jesus clearly states that only through Him will a person reach Heaven so that right there means the old laws no longer matter.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

What are his socks...and do you know this...or is it just a suspicion on your part?

I may want NOT to deal with him in any form or sock.

I’d bet hard cash on it. Into the Night, gfm7175 and IBDaMann are the same human…as sick as he probably may be.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Well Jesus clearly states that only through Him will a person reach Heaven so that right there means the old laws no longer matter.

Jesus was good, but his publishers sucked ass.

 

[Melchizedek = Michael]

Well Jesus clearly states that only through Him will a person reach Heaven so that right there means the old laws no longer matter.

Saved by grace not keeping the law,which nobody can do 100%

 

[Melchizedek = Michael]

I really do think that this particular understanding of those verses completely glosses over the final words of each of them, which are: "I came to accomplish [the Old Testament's] purpose." [and] "...until [the Old Testament's] purpose is achieved".

This begs two questions: "What is the purpose of the Old Testament?" "How is the purpose of the Old Testament accomplished?" What's interesting is that later on in the book of Matthew (Matthew 11:13), Jesus makes another reference to the same "law and prophets" which is referenced here in Matthew 5. In Matthew 11, Jesus states: "For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John (the Baptist)"... The LAW OF MOSES prophesied?! IOW, what's being said here by Jesus is that the entirety of the OT prophetically anticipated the arrival of him. Now that Jesus has arrived (and lived and died and rose again), the anticipation (OT) has been fulfilled (NT).

Jesus is the true temple. Jesus is the true unblemished blood sacrifice. Jesus, via his innocent death on the cross, ushered in the New Testament era of fulfillment to complete the Old Testament era of anticipation.

Now what is still left to be fulfilled is Jesus' "second coming" (this time as a King), as prophesied mainly in Daniel (OT) and Revelation (NT).

Excellent!

 

[IBDaMann]

This is the most corrosive aspect of any religion: the threat.

Tell me about it! It always begins with that ominous "When it comes to Climate Change, we need to address the THREAT head-on!". Nevermind that the THREAT is never specified beyond the mere possibility of every bad thing imaginable, to include your dog getting hit by a car. "If we don't approve new layers of suffocating taxation, the government won't be able to prevent Climate Change from reaching the TIPPING POINT, and if we do approve the new taxation, it might already be too late!"

I understand the threat quite well and realize it is a really effective means of strongarming someone into believing as the believer does. Believe as I do or face eternal torment.

Hence Global Warming . "If you don't believe as I tell you to believe, you will be responsible for the converting our loving planet into a barren wasteland for all future generations, just because you selfishly want a better economy and to keep more of your own money. People like you should be locked away in prison forever so that you aren't out there committing genocide on the rest of the us!"

I totally understand where you're coming from.

It is, also, a VERY good indicator that the [global climate] they worship is not one who "so loved the world" but rather the vindictive mob-boss model.

I totally agree. EVERYTHING Climate does is a punishment. It's not like climate change causes either an increase in precipitation or a decrease, it apparently causes whatever is a punishment, i.e. a decrease when it will cause drought, and an increase when it will cause flooding. It's always a punishment for our carbon sins.

What a fucked-up religion, based on HATRED and intolerance, totally opposed to happiness anywhere. Who would fall for this crap?

 

[IBDaMann]

I’d bet hard cash on it. Into the Night, gfm7175 and IBDaMann are the same human…as sick as he probably may be.

Now I'm interested. How much hard cash are you willing to bet? Are you only willing to bet as long as it cannot be verified?

If you are truly convinced, you'd jump at the chance to make an easy $750,000 right?

 

[IBDaMann]

Jesus was good, but his publishers sucked ass.

Not "publishers" Terry, ..."publicists". I'll tell the staff to look at lowering the amphetamine levels in your drip.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Now I'm interested. How much hard cash are you willing to bet? Are you only willing to bet as long as it cannot be verified?

If you are truly convinced, you'd jump at the chance to make an easy $750,000 right?

^^^
Sybil triggered. $750K? WTF, Sybil?

 

[Cypress]

Whatever!

I am NOT making any judgements on this.

I am merely agreeing with the assertion: Not once in the Bible does Jesus ever address homosexuality...except that Matthew 5 exception of not changing any of the Old Testament laws...which essentially is agreement with them.

I agree that in what people remembered of him, he never spoke of gays, never condemned them, never mentioned them in his moral teachings.

It must not have been something he thought was a priority or worth spending time on.


I also agree that he wasn't an active advocate for gay rights, which no one in recoded history actually was until the last 50 years. It must have just seemed normal to Jesus that men and women would get married, as it did to everyone in human history until the late 1990s

 

[IBDaMann]

^^^Sybil triggered. $750K? WTF, Sybil?

Thank you for clarifying that nothing that you wrote is genuine.

It's not working out for you, is it?

 

[IBDaMann]

I agree that in what people remembered of him, he never spoke of gays, never condemned them, never mentioned them in his moral teachings.

This presumes that everything Jesus said was written in the Bible. This is where you provide evidence that the Bible is the complete commentary of Jesus and that nothing was omitted.

Maybe we can get gfm7175's take on this. Perhaps he'll support the idea that every word Jesus uttered was captured in the New Testament.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

All of which came down to the nasty Republicans killing off 2% of the US population for political reasons while the Democrats were simply defending their home states. Sad.

I agree that in what people remembered of him, he never spoke of gays, never condemned them, never mentioned them in his moral teachings.

It must not have been something he thought was a priority or worth spending time on.


I also agree that he wasn't an active advocate for gay rights, which no one in recoded history actually was until the last 50 years. It must have just seemed normal to Jesus that men and women would get married, as it did to everyone in human history until the late 1990s

Jesus did speak extensively on marriage being between a man and a woman

 

[Ross Dolan]

Jesus did speak extensively on marriage being between a man and a woman

Jesus mentioned it...there is no indication he spoke extensively on it.