Tinkerpeach
New member
Well if those who guessed there are none and they are wrong then they are in serious trouble
God
- Thread starter Tinkerpeach
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NiftyNiblick
1960s Chick Magnet
There are now almost eight billion people on this seriously endangered planet, Frank.
We're getting close to the point where the people who exist now
will equal in number
all of the people who existed in the past.
For that reason, I'm not entirely sure about the multiple gods believership percentage.
Certainly could be, though.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
The planet isn’t endangered, neef. Get a fucking grip. At worst, human beings wipe out most of our species and knock us back to the Stone Age.
Tinkerpeach
New member
100 billion people have lived on the planet so we aren’t even close
NiftyNiblick
1960s Chick Magnet
Maybe so, but I'd feel more sure about it if a more reliable source offered the data.
Tinkerpeach
New member
It will take you 10 seconds to google it lol
My sense is that Jesus considered himself an interpreter of the Jewish law.
A lot, if not most of the law in Torah is ritual law - ritual purity law, kosher food laws, animal sacrifice laws, temple ritual, circumcision, civil and property laws.
I doubt Jesus was considering any wholesale revision of Jewish ritual law.
He claimed his work on the Sabbath was the will of God, superceding any traditional religious law
He certainly seemed to reinterpret laws of retribution to be more inclusive of mercy and pacifism. I think he expanded sexual mores beyond adultery prohibitions to address even lust.
Dutch Uncle
* Tertia Optio * Defend the Constitution
While he’s at least average intelligence, he’s clearly 100% wackadoodle as anyone who reads his manifesto in his signature links should know.
It’s difficult to tell if he’s dangerous or is under the care of others, but between his three main socks he spends all day on the Internet.
NiftyNiblick
1960s Chick Magnet
The planet will eventually be sucked into the sun,
and some time after that,
the sun will burn out.
However, that scenario is no more dire to me
than the existence of a Trump presidency and hip hop music at the same time.
So far, we've only cleaned up the Trump presidency part,
and even it still threatens to reappear.
Also, the trumpanzees who crawled out from under their rocks with his presidency
are still slithering about in the open either way.
Many of them are listening to country music,
which is nearly as bad as the hip hop
to which too many of my urban neighbors listen.
Mozart, Sinatra, and Charlie Parker only seem to be coming through my windows.
Saint Guinefort
Verified User
That seems somewhat reasonable especially given the fact that in Matthew 5:18 and Luke 16:17 he takes a rather strong line about the Law, and every "jot and tittle".
I am, however, curious how re-interpretting the law isn't moving jots and tittles quite significantly.
Personally I chalk it up to the writers of the Gospels and their personal preferences for how the Law should or should not be interpretted. Especially given that none of the synoptic gospels was written even marginally close to Christ's life time. The fact that the 4 Synoptic gospels often have great differences in their portrayals of Jesus and the Jesus story I feel that the writers were espousing their own interests and own focus.
While he’s at least average intelligence, he’s clearly 100% wackadoodle as anyone who reads his manifesto in his signature links should know.
It’s difficult to tell if he’s dangerous or is under the care of others, but between his three main socks he spends all day on the Internet.
What are his socks...and do you know this...or is it just a suspicion on your part?
I may want NOT to deal with him in any form or sock.
Sounds to me that ALL of the Bible reflects the interests and focus of the writers and people of that age and place.
While I do not have enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess about the existence of gods...I certainly have enough upon which to make a guess about the Bible. Here it is:
My guess, for what it is worth, is that it is a very self-serving history (of sorts) of the early Hebrew people...a relatively unsophisticated, unknowledgeable, superstitious people who had many enemies in the areas where they lived. Their enemies worshiped barbarous, vengeful, wrathful, unforgiving, demanding, murderous, petty gods. And to protect themselves from those gods, they invented an especially barbarous, vengeful, wrathful, unforgiving, demanding, murderous, petty god...and worshiped it. The story seems to be a necessary mythology. The mythology served a needed purpose at that time and I can easily understand why the ancient Hebrews felt about it the way they did.
The fact that modern theists feel the way they do about it...is disappointing and disheartening.
Saint Guinefort
Verified User
This is the most corrosive aspect of any religion: the threat.
I understand the threat quite well and realize it is a really effective means of strongarming someone into believing as the believer does. Believe as I do or face eternal torment.
It is, also, a VERY good indicator that the God they worship is not one who "so loved the world" but rather the vindictive mob-boss model. Since that doesn't make ANY theological sense to me I am forced to assume that version of God is NOT accurate.
Saint Guinefort
Verified User
^^^^QFT!
I largely agree. God of the OT is not one who so loved the world, but rather ONLY loved the Israelites. He commanded genocide against those who might have stood against the Israelites desire for land and power. It reads very much like a mythology in which the Israelites are the favored of the entire universe (even though the Bible also contains cases where the Israelites failed in their obeisance to God and suffered...much like some of our opinion writers today warn us of leaving the paths of righteousness which is the source of OUR power and greatness, etc.)
The Marcionites apparently wanted to dispense with the God of the OT, to sort of divorce the God of love in the NT who so loved the entire world and all people from the tribal advocate of the OT. They were deemed a heresy and we are still left with the OT as a means of understanding God and it paints a very theologically confusing picture.
Indeed. If their god is one who will severely punish the people who do not guess their god exists; that a different god exists; or that no gods exist...who would want to worship it?
That sounds like a disgusting god.
IF there is a GOD...I feel that THAT version of IT sucks. It is more an insult to a GOD...than a description.
saltydancin
Verified User
For all intents and purposes this Christian Nation SCOTUS Fourth Reich July 9/11 interpretation of it's "one nation under God with equal justice under law" in it's Christiananality pedophilia "man is God" diatribe excludes a Washington, D.C. born USA citizen not voting as no candidate could in any statistical probability uphold "one nation under God with equal justice under law" granting standing to Federal Lynching KKK churchstate of hate fiefdom drug trafficking enforcement for those burning "it's just a God damn piece of paper" Bush's Islam "death to the infidels" 9/11 health care patriot act not so master plan of their not so master race of suicidal super ego sociopsychopathilogical homicidal human farming Islamidiotocracy national religion.....
Saint Guinefort
Verified User
Ditch the "auto complete". Looks like brain damage.
gfm7175
Mega MAGA
Interesting question. I'd say that Christians believe that Judaism was correct up until the arrival, life, death, *and resurrection* of Jesus. At this point, but especially *this point*, Christians believe that Judaism began to fundamentally "get it wrong" in their failure to recognize Jesus as the Messiah, as the fulfiller of OT prophecy. Ergo, the resulting formation of Christianity.
Regarding the quoted scripture, also focus on the ending of both verses. My understanding of verse 17 is that Jesus was explaining that he was not modifying any OT law, but rather that he was the embodiment and fulfillment of it. He fulfilled the moral law by keeping it perfectly. He fulfilled the ceremonial law by being the embodiment of everything that the law's rituals/symbolism pointed towards (sacrificial lambs, blood atonements, etc etc). He fulfilled the judicial law by personifying God's perfect justice.
My understanding of verse 18 is that Jesus was affirming the inerrancy and authority of the OT law as being the Word of God, and that he came to Earth not to supplant the law in any way, but rather to fulfill and explicate it. Because of this, Christians believe that the ceremonial requirements listed within the OT law are no longer necessary to perform because those requirements were meant to point to the future arrival of an ultimate "sacrificial lamb" (to Jesus' future crucifixion), and now that the things those ceremonial requirements were pointing towards have already occurred and have been fulfilled through Jesus' birth, life, death, and resurrection, there's no reason to keep observing/performing said rituals. Ergo, the birth of the NT gospel due to man's reconciled relationship with God the Father, through the death and resurrection of Jesus.
So does Judaism need to be correct in order for Christianity to be correct? I'd say yes insomuch as the fact that Christianity was born from Judaism. However, the Judaism of today (and the past roughly 2,000 years) suffers from a fundamentally flawed belief (that Jesus is not the Messiah). That flawed fundamental belief now makes Judaism "incorrect" even though it was once "correct" before then. Of course, Judaism could say much of the same (vice versa) about Christianity.
Gospels written 35 to 50 years after his execution isn't that long by the standards of antiquity. The aphorisms and teachings of Confucius, The Buddha, Lao Tzu weren't written down until centuries after their deaths. I don't think the Haddith was written down until well over a century after the life of Muhammad
You're rights that the Gospels seem to differ in a lot of details like whether Jesus' parents were from Nazareth or Bethlehem, whether Jesus was God incarnate during his life and ministery, the words and actions of Pontius Pilate and the Pharisees.
But IMO taking the gospels as a whole, they tend to consistently capture something of the core essence of Jesus and his ministery, his actions and his parables which seem to converge on concepts mercy, compassion, moral improvement, universal love, and justice for the poor and oppressed. I think the parables he is reported to have told generally have the ring of authenticity to them.
Yes, I suppose that is your understanding of that quote...and I appreciate it as a reasonable understanding/interpretation. Important to note that the article in that appreciation being the indefinite rather than the definite..."a" reasonable understanding/interpretation...NOT "the" reasonable understanding/interpretation.
There is value for Christians who interpret the passage that way...while interpreting it in other reasonable ways present bumps in the road.
The interpretation I favor is that Jesus was assuring his audience that nothing in the law...not one letter, nor even a stroke of one letter...was to be changed because of his coming...until Heaven and Earth disappear.
Okay...the Earth definitely is still here, and I am assured by Christians that Heaven is still here and will last forever.
But parts of "the Law" have changed, as well it should...some occasioned by changes Jesus suggested.
More on this as the discussion proceeds.