Good time to implement universal healthcare?

Darla said:
Well, the cost of college has risen 497% since 1982 and it's still going up. So if you believe that anyone who doesn't go to college shouldn't be entitled to a decent living, then you are going to, through elitism, send this country into the same state as a third world stink hole, because in case you haven't noticed, we are quickly becoming a country whose middle class cannot afford to send its children to college.
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I think college should be free in this country... but not for everyone. Make the grades and show the effort and desire you should be able to afford it.
 
Chapdog said:
I think college should be free in this country.
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So you want universal healthcare and universal college? Wow. But the fact of unions just bothers the shit out of you? Unions exist so that workers and their families can have heathcare and can make a decent wage so they can afford things like college fort their children.
 
Dungheap said:
So you want universal healthcare and universal college? Wow. But the fact of unions just bothers the shit out of you? Unions exist so that workers and their families can have heathcare and can make a decent wage so they can afford things like college fort their children.
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Unions are despicable and corrupt. How about at a minimum we outlaw any type of union political action. No contributions, no lobbying, no communications to union member on political issues.
 
Chapdog said:
Unions are despicable and corrupt. How about at a minimum we outlaw any type of union political action. No contributions, no lobbying, no communications to union member on political issues.
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Why? Why should a union forfeit its first amendment rights? Should we do the same for the collectivization of capital?


Edit: and unions are no more corrupt than corporations.
 
Chapdog said:
Unions are despicable and corrupt. How about at a minimum we outlaw any type of union political action. No contributions, no lobbying, no communications to union member on political issues.
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Outlaw all PACS and even political parties as non profit orgs. No donbations allowed. All paid lobbiests banned. Lobby if you want but all you can be reimbursed for is actual expenses and you must have another real job.
Don't want paid lobbiests to be just renamed public relations experts or somesuch. Lets say less than 10% of your job can be lobbying.
 
Dungheap said:
Why? Why should a union forfeit its first amendment rights? Should we do the same for the collectivization of capital?


Edit: and unions are no more corrupt than corporations.
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It isn't first amendment when they can force you to join, force you to give money to them, and thus force you to "support" political positions you may find not just contrary, but sometimes abysmally wrong.

This would fall under reasonable restrictions. Corporations are not individuals either, it isn't an entity with "free speech" IMO, their owners have it, not the corporation.
 
uscitizen said:
Outlaw all PACS and even political parties as non profit orgs. No donbations allowed. All paid lobbiests banned. Lobby if you want but all you can be reimbursed for is actual expenses and you must have another real job.
Don't want paid lobbiests to be just renamed public relations experts or somesuch. Lets say less than 10% of your job can be lobbying.
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Sounds good to me. What do the unions do with thoes huge fees anyhow? Why dont they bail out there employees from losing there jobs when GM closes the doors.
 
Chapdog said:
Sounds good to me. What do the unions do with thoes huge fees anyhow? Why dont they bail out there employees from losing there jobs when GM closes the doors.
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You know that post made no sense at all Chappy.

Many unions give out benefits during strikes. And also help you to find another job if you get laid off.
 
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Damocles said:
It isn't first amendment when they can force you to join, force you to give money to them, and thus force you to "support" political positions you may find not just contrary, but sometimes abysmally wrong.

This would fall under reasonable restrictions. Corporations are not individuals either, it isn't an entity with "free speech" IMO, their owners have it, not the corporation.
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Yeah it is. And, no one is forced to do anything. Union jobs are always, and have always been, at a premium. You don't like it? Leave. There's ten guys want a shot at that union job. Because it means things many, most even, do not have. A living wage, health care, retirement, and job security.

Feel free to walk your ass down the road dude.
 
Darla said:
Yeah it is. And, no one is forced to do anything. Union jobs are always, and have always been, at a premium. You don't like it? Leave. There's ten guys want a shot at that union job. Because it means things many, most even, do not have. A living wage, health care, retirement, and job security.

Feel free to walk your ass down the road dude.
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in exchange for destroying one of the last American industries.
 
uscitizen said:
Outlaw all PACS and even political parties as non profit orgs. No donbations allowed. All paid lobbiests banned. Lobby if you want but all you can be reimbursed for is actual expenses and you must have another real job.
Don't want paid lobbiests to be just renamed public relations experts or somesuch. Lets say less than 10% of your job can be lobbying.
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All private (corporate, union, or personal) donations should be banned and political parties and independents should be funded through private financing that depends upon how many votes they get.

Lobbying should also be banned. Completely. And the influence of think tanks on public policy should be curtailed significantly.
 
Darla said:
Yeah it is. And, no one is forced to do anything. Union jobs are always, and have always been, at a premium. You don't like it? Leave. There's ten guys want a shot at that union job. Because it means things many, most even, do not have. A living wage, health care, retirement, and job security.

Feel free to walk your ass down the road dude.
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Right, and you don't like how the US does things? Leave.

Blah, blah. :rolleyes:

You don't like what the Union does? You fight against it so your raises aren't limited to their crappy contract and you have to pay for their "representation" that isn't.

So far we've won every time, because union jobs are not quite the "premium" you think they are.
 
Chapdog said:
With all this talk of billions of dollars of bailout for the auto companies perhaps it makes sense to talk about piloting a universal health care for the employees. After all the reason American companies cant compete with Toyota or Honda is because there cost per hour is in the 80's when you include all the ridiculously bloated health care benefits they are given versus a Toyota worker making 30's.

Perhaps some level of care is piloted employees from the auto companies sort of like for veterans and then we do away with the UAW.
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The big 3 are asking for a one time amount of $25 billion. Medicare and Medicaid cost over $800 billion per year, universal healthcare would be 3 times that. Chap, you understand numbers and I'm sure you can see they aren't close to comparable.

The auto bailout is a bad idea but it will not bankrupt the nation like universal healthcare has the very easy potential to do. Most states including Liberal Hawaii are shedding their government healthcare programs, let's not repeat their mistakes.
 
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