Grounds to strike down Prop 8

SmarterThanYou said:
ANY bodily fluid transfer can transmit the virus, even you kissing your girlfriend or drinking out of the same coke bottle. It's totally ludicrous to say that homosexual relations is the leading cause.
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Okay, apparently you missed the point. It was argued that shit can't be put into ice cream because it is a risk to public health, and my response was, AIDS is a risk to public health as well. Homosexual relations is a LEADING cause of AIDS, whether it is technically THE leading cause, is irrelevant to the point being made, but thanks for the clarification. I suspect, if we allowed shit to be put in ice cream, it wouldn't be THE leading cause of death due to fecal bacteria, but this wouldn't make it okay to do it.

I really do love the way pinheads find to divert any topic off into a myopic irrelevant point to avoid the subject. It's a fucking art form!
 
Dude, the risk is not increased by allowing homosexual couples to marry.

Nothing at all would change for you.

The government should not be a mechanism to push a religious definition of anything anywhere, even if it is to "save them from themselves".
 
ib1yysguy said:
Surely he is.
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I am not the idiot who started a thread with an irrelevant argument and misinterpretation of the 14th Amendment. I am also not the idiot who thought the 14th contained the word "minority" in it. So, I would be careful about who you call 'stupid' if I were you. The way I see it, you have little room to talk.
 
Dixie said:
Okay, apparently you missed the point. It was argued that shit can't be put into ice cream because it is a risk to public health, and my response was, AIDS is a risk to public health as well. Homosexual relations is a LEADING cause of AIDS, whether it is technically THE leading cause, is irrelevant to the point being made, but thanks for the clarification. I suspect, if we allowed shit to be put in ice cream, it wouldn't be THE leading cause of death due to fecal bacteria, but this wouldn't make it okay to do it.

I really do love the way pinheads find to divert any topic off into a myopic irrelevant point to avoid the subject. It's a fucking art form!
Click to expand...

despite the lame assed attempt to compare shit in ice cream with same sex relations, are you seriously trying to promote federal interference in marriage because of the spread of disease?
 
Damocles said:
Dude, the risk is not increased by allowing homosexual couples to marry.

Nothing at all would change for you.

The government should not be a mechanism to push a religious definition of anything anywhere, even if it is to "save them from themselves".
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The risk of death is not increased by allowing shit to be put in ice cream either, and nothing would change for me.

I agree, government shouldn't "push" any religious definition. They also shouldn't "tear down" religious definitions. The Wall works both ways, you see.
 
Damocles said:
Dude, the risk is not increased by allowing homosexual couples to marry.

Nothing at all would change for you.

The government should not be a mechanism to push a religious definition of anything anywhere, even if it is to "save them from themselves".
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True, but facts don't seem to matter to Dixie.

Apparently he thinks that by refusing to make gay marriages legal, there will be no more gay sex. That is the ONLY way his statement has any relevance.

And Dixie, if you look beyond just the bare surface, the homosexual relations that continue the spread of AIDs is not sexual contact between monogamous couples. Like the ones who wish to marry.

And actually, lesbians are among the lowest risk groups for AIDs. So should we let lesbians marry?
 
Dixie said:
The risk of death is not increased by allowing shit to be put in ice cream either, and nothing would change for me.

I agree, government shouldn't "push" any religious definition. They also shouldn't "tear down" religious definitions. The Wall works both ways, you see.
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They are not tearing down any definition. They are simply expanding the definition. If your religion specifies that only men and women can marry, then allowing gays to marry does not change that at all.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
ANY bodily fluid transfer can transmit the virus, even you kissing your girlfriend or drinking out of the same coke bottle. It's totally ludicrous to say that homosexual relations is the leading cause.
Click to expand...

Not quite true. Not all bodily fluids can carry the HIV virus. Kissing and sharing drink containers may transmit mononucleosis, but not AIDS. You need a certain critical mass of the virus and this may be found in blood and blood products (including semen), not saliva. For one thing it couldn't survive long in that medium. It also wouldn't survive on the surface of a drinking vessel, even if saliva did carry the virus which it does not.

The blood carrier factor is the reason that law enforcement and health care personnel wear latex or vinyl gloves when dealing with someone who has been injured and is bleeding. Any small cut, including an accidental stick with a needle that's been exposed to an HIV-positive person's blood, can transmit the virus. There's no on-site test to determine the presence of HIV, so all precautions are taken.
 
Dixie said:
The risk of death is not increased by allowing shit to be put in ice cream either, and nothing would change for me.

I agree, government shouldn't "push" any religious definition. They also shouldn't "tear down" religious definitions. The Wall works both ways, you see.
Click to expand...
The risk of death is definitely increased if I put poop into your ice cream. Your analogy fails here 100%. Either you are lying or don't realize that eating poop can actually infect you with a disease.

Now, what you propose is keeping a law that would not allow somebody else from adding poop topping if they want onto THEIR OWN ice cream. (There is no such law, if you want to eat poop, you are allowed to do so.)

It's their danged ice cream. It has nothing to do with you. Them being allowed to add whatever topping they want to their ice cream will never, not even one little bit, infect your ice cream or cause you to be in danger in any way from eating your own ice cream.
 
Damocles said:
The risk of death is definitely increased if I put poop into your ice cream. Your analogy fails here 100%. Either you are lying or don't realize that eating poop can actually infect you with a disease.

Now, what you propose is keeping a law that would not allow somebody else from adding poop topping if they want onto THEIR OWN ice cream. (There is no such law, if you want to eat poop, you are allowed to do so.)

It's their danged ice cream. It has nothing to do with you. Them being allowed to add whatever topping they want to their ice cream will never, not even one little bit, infect your ice cream or cause you to be in danger in any way from eating your own ice cream.
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I'm sorry, Damo, I'm still laughing at this even though your comments are valid. Is this the extent to which one must go in order to try to make any headway in logic with this poster?
 
SmarterThanYou said:
despite the lame assed attempt to compare shit in ice cream with same sex relations, are you seriously trying to promote federal interference in marriage because of the spread of disease?
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No, I have been very clear on this subject. I gave the shit in ice cream analogy to refute the gay/interracial marriage argument. The most appropriate analogy I can present for 'gay marriage' is the one I gave about 'public nudity'. It is illegal to be nude in public... it doesn't harm you or I to allow nudists the 'right' to go au naturale, it doesn't force us to be nude, it simply gives them the right to do what they wish. Who are we to deny them their "right" to go nude?

You see, at some point in time, man made the determination it was moral and decent for people to clothe themselves in public. We may not all agree with that concept, some of us may prefer to be nude, and it may be something that makes us happy and content, but as a society, we simply don't allow this behavior in public. It doesn't mean we forbid anyone from being nude, or don't believe people should be able to do whatever they wish in the privacy of their own homes. It doesn't mean we think going nude will turn people into nudists, or create more of them. It doesn't mean we want to deny nudist any right or opportunity of others, and the same thing applies with gay marriage.
 
Damocles said:
The risk of death is definitely increased if I put poop into your ice cream. Your analogy fails here 100%. Either you are lying or don't realize that eating poop can actually infect you with a disease.

Now, what you propose is keeping a law that would not allow somebody else from adding poop topping if they want onto THEIR OWN ice cream. (There is no such law, if you want to eat poop, you are allowed to do so.)

It's their danged ice cream. It has nothing to do with you. Them being allowed to add whatever topping they want to their ice cream will never, not even one little bit, infect your ice cream or cause you to be in danger in any way from eating your own ice cream.
Click to expand...

The risk of death from AIDS is also increased if you stick your penis in my ass! Last I checked, Ben and Jerry's doesn't include shit in their list of toppings for ice cream. If they did, it wouldn't cause me to die, because I wouldn't eat it. Let's get back on topic, I am not comparing shit in ice cream to gay marriage, I was making an analogy to refute the irrelevant comparison of gay marriage to interracial marriage. Interracial marriage is allowing chocolate and vanilla ice cream to be served, Gay Marriage is allowing shit to be included at Ben and Jerry's. It's two completely different things because race is not a fundamental factor in marriage, and gender is. Just as shit is not a fundamental factor in ice cream, and chocolate is. Are you to obtuse to understand the point I am trying to make here, or do you just want to argue for the sake of being right?
 
Thorn said:
Not quite true. Not all bodily fluids can carry the HIV virus. Kissing and sharing drink containers may transmit mononucleosis, but not AIDS. You need a certain critical mass of the virus and this may be found in blood and blood products (including semen), not saliva. For one thing it couldn't survive long in that medium. It also wouldn't survive on the surface of a drinking vessel, even if saliva did carry the virus which it does not.

The blood carrier factor is the reason that law enforcement and health care personnel wear latex or vinyl gloves when dealing with someone who has been injured and is bleeding. Any small cut, including an accidental stick with a needle that's been exposed to an HIV-positive person's blood, can transmit the virus. There's no on-site test to determine the presence of HIV, so all precautions are taken.
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One of the things I found interesting about HIV is that the virus is actually not easy to keep alive outside the body. Unlike Hepatitus, the virus that causes AIDs is not a particularly hardy virus.

I almost married a researcher from Johns Hopkins, and she told of some of the protocols they established to make sure their SIV (simian verion of HIV) stayed alive in the lab. It was cool being able to tour a P3 Viral Lab.
 
Thorn said:
Not quite true. Not all bodily fluids can carry the HIV virus. Kissing and sharing drink containers may transmit mononucleosis, but not AIDS. You need a certain critical mass of the virus and this may be found in blood and blood products (including semen), not saliva. For one thing it couldn't survive long in that medium. It also wouldn't survive on the surface of a drinking vessel, even if saliva did carry the virus which it does not.

The blood carrier factor is the reason that law enforcement and health care personnel wear latex or vinyl gloves when dealing with someone who has been injured and is bleeding. Any small cut, including an accidental stick with a needle that's been exposed to an HIV-positive person's blood, can transmit the virus. There's no on-site test to determine the presence of HIV, so all precautions are taken.
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I wasn't very detailed and specific, but I was referring to the possibility of mouth wounds with the drinking part. The virus has a very limited survival time in UV light, but it can be long enough if sharing drinks.
 
Dixie said:
The risk of death from AIDS is also increased if you stick your penis in my ass! Last I checked, Ben and Jerry's doesn't include shit in their list of toppings for ice cream. If they did, it wouldn't cause me to die, because I wouldn't eat it. Let's get back on topic, I am not comparing shit in ice cream to gay marriage, I was making an analogy to refute the irrelevant comparison of gay marriage to interracial marriage. Interracial marriage is allowing chocolate and vanilla ice cream to be served, Gay Marriage is allowing shit to be included at Ben and Jerry's. It's two completely different things because race is not a fundamental factor in marriage, and gender is. Just as shit is not a fundamental factor in ice cream, and chocolate is. Are you to obtuse to understand the point I am trying to make here, or do you just want to argue for the sake of being right?
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One more time for the slow.

Your
Risk
for
AIDS
is
not
increased
if
somebody
else
puts
a
penis
into
the
anus
of
somebody
who
is
not
you.

This
means
that
it
won't
effect
you
unless
you
choose
to
put
a
penis
into
your
anus.

So, if you want to put poop topping on your ice cream, my chance for disease is not increased. Therefore you are allowed to continue putting poop on your ice cream. Put as much there as you want. (You can, in fact, actually do this if you want, there is NO LAW against you topping your ice cream with feces.)
 
SmarterThanYou said:
I wasn't very detailed and specific, but I was referring to the possibility of mouth wounds with the drinking part. The virus has a very limited survival time in UV light, but it can be long enough if sharing drinks.
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That's a real stretch, but could be a concern. I've always been taught not to share drink containers anyway, for many many reasons.

For anyone who is interested in more detailed information about HIV/AIDS, here's an excellent link: http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/qa/transmission.htm
 
Damocles said:
One more time for the slow.

Your
Risk
for
AIDS
is
not
increased
if
somebody
else
puts
a
penis
into
the
anus
of
somebody
who
is
not
you.

This
means
that
it
won't
effect
you
unless
you
choose
to
put
a
penis
into
your
anus.

So, if you want to put poop topping on your ice cream, my chance for disease is not increased. Therefore you are allowed to continue putting poop on your ice cream. Put as much there as you want. (You can, in fact, actually do this if you want, there is NO LAW against you topping your ice cream with feces.)
Click to expand...

One more time for the retarded...
If
you
allow
shit
to
be
included
as
a
topping
it
will
not
cause
death
to
anyone
not
eating
the
ice
cream

There is no law that prohibits gay people from engaging in homosexual relations, they can fuck each other in the ass all they like! No one has proposed such a law, or tried to deny them the right to fuck each other in the ass. There is no law prohibiting gay couples from having a ceremony and calling it 'marriage' or whatever they want to call it. There is, however, a 5000+ year-old definition of "marriage" and it is indeed, a religious institution and foundation for family and church. Currently, state governments 'certify' marriage between a man and a woman, because this is what 'marriage' is. Civil Unions legislation would remedy all legal complaints of gay couples, without interfering with the sanctity of marriage as a religious institution.
 
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