Gun Monkey Follies: arming teachers

[TOP]

No one is ever going to require a teacher to carry a gun if they are not comfortable doing so...

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Nope. Not all people are comfortable handing/using guns in general, much less in a highly stressful situation. The last thing I want is to have an inexperienced and extremely nervous person handling a gun in a very stressful situation.

Agree. As we've seen more than once in non-school mass shootings, often an armed civilian will freeze, hide, or run away. And those are people who *want* to carry around firearms and presumably have at least practiced with them. After my late husband passed, I taught my daughters how to shoot. We lived in a rural area and because I worked evening shift they were often home by themselves. Neither of them liked it at all. Neither own guns now or are married to gun owners. I can't see my youngest, a sp. ed. teacher, packing, or the other girl who is a vet tech/data analyst.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Police are human... and some are flawed. Uvalde showed us that police aren't guaranteed to intervene, even when they should.

Let's not forget the Parkland shooting as well. That armed security guy, who was a former policeman, did nothing as well.

 

[RB 60]

"HUNT" not "hurt." You may find this difficult to believe, but just because you are obsessed with firearms doesn't mean the rest of us share that devotion. Again, people do not go into teaching to carry firearms into the classroom. It's bad enough that they have to have active shooter drills and worry that cops will stand around with their thumbs up their asses, like they did at Uvalde, while they and their students are gunned down.

Guns are not the solution. They are the problem.

What's your plan to keep kids safe from other kids, since no one teaches respect and self responsibility anymore?
You keep bringing up the cowardice of the officers at Uvalde, if a teacher was armed there, do you think it would have helped or hurt the situation?
Maybe you should teach your kids to be more responsible? We learned to be.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

What's your plan to keep kids safe from other kids, since no one teaches respect and self responsibility anymore?

You don't have children, grandchildren, or anyone you know who teaches or attends school now. You are wrong. Teachers, esp. in grade school, are always teaching about respecting others. You Reichwingers think that "woke" is a bad thing. Nope, it's a teaching tool that helps children understand that we're not all alike, but worthy of being respected.

You keep bringing up the cowardice of the officers at Uvalde, if a teacher was armed there, do you think it would have helped or hurt the situation?

I doubt if it would have made a bit of difference. Why on Earth do you think that educators should also be law enforcement officers? You RWers barely want to fund public education as it is. You want to pay for teachers' weapons, training, practice, and liability insurance?

Maybe you should teach your kids to be more responsible? We learned to be.

WTF does that mean? Why do you think my children are not responsible?

 

[Taichiliberal]

The way the first guy presents it, teachers are being forced to carry guns. They aren’t.

If there is a secure way to store guns in the classroom, so there is no way a student can get to them, I’m fine with teachers, who are comfortable and compentent, being allowed to carry guns.

The whole reason people have guns in their homes is to protect themselves and people they care about because police can’t be everywhere…or, when they are there, they stand around sanitizing their hands rather than protecting people.

1. Nowhere did Brando say that teachers would be "forced". He is pointing to the legal allowance for school boards to allow such for the teachers who want to "volunteer" and such. If you can quote otherwise, please do.

2. "If" being the operative word. But for the sake of argument, let's say it's done. Now, you have some nut case invade the school with gun(s) a-blazing (hope it's not during change of classes when the hallways are full). For the "good guy with a gun" to be effective they would have to be on the same floor in the same room to access that gun ... providing they have time and opportunity to get a bead on the shooter. A lot of "ifs" there. As for "comfortable & competent", that competence has to be determined via TRAINING. Like I said to someone else, cops take months to train and be on probation before being given permission to be a soul determiner when to fire that weapon. Who's going to pay for that for the teacher? When will they have the time among their other responsibilities?

3. Your first part here refers to HOMES.....schools, like many other commercial/private/public buildings can hire TRAINED ARMED GUARDS. As to your last part .... don't take what happened at Uvalde as the standard for all cops in America.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by ZenMode View Post
The way the first guy presents it, teachers are being forced to carry guns. They aren’t.

If there is a secure way to store guns in the classroom, so there is no way a student can get to them, I’m fine with teachers, who are comfortable and compentent, being allowed to carry guns.

The whole reason people have guns in their homes is to protect themselves and people they care about because police can’t be everywhere…or, when they are there, they stand around sanitizing their hands rather than protecting people

Excellent post Except for the remark about policemen... But kudos for The rest .

Of which I deconstructed. If you can fault me logically, please do. https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...Follies-arming-teachers&p=5970995#post5970995

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by ZenMode View Post
Police are human... and some are flawed. Uvalde showed us that police aren't guaranteed to intervene, even when they should.

Some are...but Most...the vast majority... aren't... I think you and your "thanker" know that...

If that were indeed the case, then YOU would not have the life style that you grew up with, much less live now. If you think/believe not, then move to some countries around the world that do NOT have uniformity in their national law enforcement (or a major corruption thereof). Let us know how that works out.

 

[Taichiliberal]

You don't have children, grandchildren, or anyone you know who teaches or attends school now. You are wrong. Teachers, esp. in grade school, are always teaching about respecting others. You Reichwingers think that "woke" is a bad thing. Nope, it's a teaching tool that helps children understand that we're not all alike, but worthy of being respected.



I doubt if it would have made a bit of difference. Why on Earth do you think that educators should also be law enforcement officers? You RWers barely want to fund public education as it is. You want to pay for teachers' weapons, training, practice, and liability insurance?



WTF does that mean? Why do you think my children are not responsible?

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
All you're doing is just proving the #1 point I previously made.....parroting it ad nausea won't make it more valid. And my brother could teach you a thing or two about the "school family" as opposed to his biological family (a few decades of teaching/tutoring in various educational venues. So repeating that BS of yours doesn't cut it. And of course, repeating a gun monkey mantra is not a new discussion point. It just becomes empty rhetoric when previously deconstructed, as I did in #4. Your last sentence is just worthless smoke blowing of a MAGA/gun monkey troll who can't debate an issue logically and factually.

i suggest you talk to your brother and get back to me, if he taught several decades...I think you might be surprised how he feels about his school family...and his responsibilities when the children are under his care...

Okay, now you're just being absurd ... assuming that I don't talk to my brother AND that he would whole heartedly agree with your convoluted BS. Hell, he's the one who daily relates his experiences, which gives me the grounds to debunk your rhetoric. I pointed out the basic differences between a biological family and the philosophical one at the work place. Now you can run the gamut regarding feelings and caring and such, but you can't change matters of fact. https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...Follies-arming-teachers&p=5969879#post5969879

But knowing your habits over the years, you'll just parrot the SOS, running down any detour to avoid conceding an original point. Pathetic.

The OP stands valid. If you agree, then there's nothing more to discuss.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
I think you have a typo here, as this is a repeat. No one is buying your BS the first time. Just thought you should know.

I'm a retired MS and HS special education teacher and coach...I'm sorry that you can't accept that, but it is what it is...My school family is my family...ask your brother how that works... Mental illness and illegal guns are the biggest problem..
I am glad you are concerned...we all have to be...We'll get things back on track when we get this country back... that should begin in November at the latest, though we're continuing to work on it now...

Ahh, so you are just parroting the SOS that's already been addressed and deconstructed in the chronology of the post. Carry on being insipidly stubborn.

 

[RB 60]

You don't have children, grandchildren, or anyone you know who teaches or attends school now. You are wrong. Teachers, esp. in grade school, are always teaching about respecting others. You Reichwingers think that "woke" is a bad thing. Nope, it's a teaching tool that helps children understand that we're not all alike, but worthy of being respected.



I doubt if it would have made a bit of difference. Why on Earth do you think that educators should also be law enforcement officers? You RWers barely want to fund public education as it is. You want to pay for teachers' weapons, training, practice, and liability insurance?



WTF does that mean? Why do you think my children are not responsible?

Foolish accusations, as usual. How do you know I don't know anyone in school or any teachers?

I went over that before. Keep up.

Why do kids want to shoot other kids, especially those they don't know?

 

[Taichiliberal]

Originally Posted by ThatOwlWoman View Post
You don't have children, grandchildren, or anyone you know who teaches or attends school now. You are wrong. Teachers, esp. in grade school, are always teaching about respecting others. You Reichwingers think that "woke" is a bad thing. Nope, it's a teaching tool that helps children understand that we're not all alike, but worthy of being respected.



I doubt if it would have made a bit of difference. Why on Earth do you think that educators should also be law enforcement officers? You RWers barely want to fund public education as it is. You want to pay for teachers' weapons, training, practice, and liability insurance?



WTF does that mean? Why do you think my children are not responsible?

Foolish accusations, as usual. How do you know I don't know anyone in school or any teachers?

I went over that before. Keep up.

Why do kids want to shoot other kids, especially those they don't know?

Have you not followed the news in the past 20 years regarding the "manifestos" and such left by mass shooters (kids & adults)? IMHO, any teacher who does NOT have a background in law enforcement or MP (military police) should NOT be strapped in a school environment. Have the school board get off it's ideological butts, properly vet REAL security guards for their needs, then cobble together the budget to get them.

 

[ZenMode]

1. Nowhere did Brando say that teachers would be "forced". He is pointing to the legal allowance for school boards to allow such for the teachers who want to "volunteer" and such. If you can quote otherwise, please do.

He's not clear. The TV hosts are clear that it's voluntary, but his only description is Tennessee "has passed a bill that would arm the teachers". At least that's all I heard through about 7min.

2. "If" being the operative word. But for the sake of argument, let's say it's done. Now, you have some nut case invade the school with gun(s) a-blazing (hope it's not during change of classes when the hallways are full). For the "good guy with a gun" to be effective they would have to be on the same floor in the same room to access that gun ... providing they have time and opportunity to get a bead on the shooter. A lot of "ifs" there. As for "comfortable & competent", that competence has to be determined via TRAINING. Like I said to someone else, cops take months to train and be on probation before being given permission to be a soul determiner when to fire that weapon. Who's going to pay for that for the teacher? When will they have the time among their other responsibilities?

There are a lot of ifs. Every school shooting I'm aware of has happened when kids are in class. I could be wrong. It seems likely that a shooting would happen during class since changing of class is only about 5-7 min of each hour and a shooter is likely to prefer kids trapped and unable to run. I personally think giving teachers & students, who are trapped in a classroom, a fighting chance is worth the risk.

3. Your first part here refers to HOMES.....schools, like many other commercial/private/public buildings can hire TRAINED ARMED GUARDS. As to your last part .... don't take what happened at Uvalde as the standard for all cops in America.

They can hire armed guards. It would be great if they did, but I don't think most schools or school districts has funding to hire an armed guard at every school.

 

[TOP]

Okay, now you're just being absurd ... assuming that I don't talk to my brother AND that he would whole heartedly agree with your convoluted BS. Hell, he's the one who daily relates his experiences, which gives me the grounds to debunk your rhetoric. I pointed out the basic differences between a biological family and the philosophical one at the work place. Now you can run the gamut regarding feelings and caring and such, but you can't change matters of fact. https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...Follies-arming-teachers&p=5969879#post5969879

But knowing your habits over the years, you'll just parrot the SOS, running down any detour to avoid conceding an original point. Pathetic.

The OP stands valid. If you agree, then there's nothing more to discuss.

How great that you're able to talk to your brother every day, and get some perspective of what he does. I never said there were no differences between school family and biological family...but school is both workplace and family...that fact will never change. Teachers wear many and varied hats, as you probably are well aware...Don't be embarrassed to admit it...Teachers need your support....
And thanks for following me over the years...I don't recall us ever having many conversations, so that's flattering to know...Have a great day...

 

[TOP]

Ahh, so you are just parroting the SOS that's already been addressed and deconstructed in the chronology of the post. Carry on being insipidly stubborn.

It is what it is...there's nothing you can type to "deconstruct" any of what I posted...

 

[TOP]

Of which I deconstructed. If you can fault me logically, please do. https://www.justplainpolitics.com/s...Follies-arming-teachers&p=5970995#post5970995

I see no "deconstruction"...if you disagree with that excellent post reply to the poster...

 

[Into the Night]

Agree. As we've seen more than once in non-school mass shootings, often an armed civilian will freeze, hide, or run away. And those are people who *want* to carry around firearms and presumably have at least practiced with them. After my late husband passed, I taught my daughters how to shoot. We lived in a rural area and because I worked evening shift they were often home by themselves. Neither of them liked it at all. Neither own guns now or are married to gun owners. I can't see my youngest, a sp. ed. teacher, packing, or the other girl who is a vet tech/data analyst.

Fiction won't work. Stop making shit up.

 

[Into the Night]

You don't have children, grandchildren, or anyone you know who teaches or attends school now. You are wrong. Teachers, esp. in grade school, are always teaching about respecting others. You Reichwingers think that "woke" is a bad thing. Nope, it's a teaching tool that helps children understand that we're not all alike, but worthy of being respected.



I doubt if it would have made a bit of difference. Why on Earth do you think that educators should also be law enforcement officers? You RWers barely want to fund public education as it is. You want to pay for teachers' weapons, training, practice, and liability insurance?



WTF does that mean? Why do you think my children are not responsible?

Because of what you fail to teach them.

 

[Into the Night]

If that were indeed the case, then YOU would not have the life style that you grew up with, much less live now. If you think/believe not, then move to some countries around the world that do NOT have uniformity in their national law enforcement (or a major corruption thereof). Let us know how that works out.

It is already nonuniform law enforcement in the United States. You can see how it works out. That's why citizens (including teachers) can carry a gun.