High Gas Prices? Blame the Tree Huggers!
- Thread starter Dixie - In Memoriam
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Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
No, go back and read what all I have posted, and you will find I addressed the "demand" aspects as well. I am all in favor of an aggressive, 'Marshall Plan' type program to replace fossil fuel with some alternative, probably hydrogen. We need to develop such a plan and start building the infrastructure for it now, or relatively soon, but I have confidence that we can do that, and do it better than any country on the planet. Think about how long it will take to put hydrogen filling stations in every city, on every corner, like we have gas stations now? This has to be done because lazy Americans aren't going to buy a car that isn't convenient to fuel. In developing new technology, we can decrease the demand for oil, but that is about the only way to decrease demand, since our population continues to grow, as well as vehicles on the road.
My approach tackles both supply and demand at the same time, and I know that is a tough concept for pinheads to grasp, but we really can do both at the same time. Increase supply by drilling domestic reserves, increase production of gas by building more refineries, and decrease consumption through new alternative fuel sources, and eventually eliminate fossil fuels as an energy source through new technology.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
Supply has decreased over the past year. I don't know that demand has decreased in the past 60 years. It generally rises yearly because of natural growth. I also don't buy that we consume 75% of the world oil supply, I would have to see the numbers on that. I think China and Russia probably use almost as much as we use.
The main issue is Supply, not Demand. We can more easily solve the problem of Supply than Demand. Supply is as simple as drilling for more domestic oil and building more refineries. Demand takes more time and is harder to change, but this can certainly be decreased, which has a positive effect on prices as well, IF we increase the Supply of oil!
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
We've already established (back on page 1) that Speculators do not have any leverage over price. I didn't have to ask, I already knew this. It is why they call them "speculators" ...they are "speculating" on the price going up or down. Kind of like gamblers. Now, if you went to Vegas and lost money all weekend, would it be the fault of all the gamblers, or just that you had shitty luck?
It is impossible for me to outmatch myself, but if anyone could outmatch me, it would be myself, you sure as hell aren't about to.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
"culpable?" If you mean they both play a role in the equation, I agree, that's why they call it Supply and Demand. Did something I post indicate to you that I thought differently? My goodness, it seems I have gone over this about a dozen times already, but once again, the issue of high gas prices is Supply and Demand.
Your ignorance is apparent in your language. "Decreasing demand would affect the equation the same as increasing the supply to a similar degree." WTF kind of convoluted bullshit is this? Either demand affects the equation to the same degree or to a similar degree, it can't be both.
I declare, I have looked through my entire posting, and don't see a single place where I ever said that demand doesn't effect the economic condition of price. Is this something you dreamed I said, or wished I said? I guess it must be, because it doesn't appear anywhere in this thread.
Let's go over this one more time, Supply is more important in this situation than Demand, not because Supply has more of an effect on the equation, but because we can affect the equation more with Supply. We can not conserve and cut demand enough to offset the reduced Supply from OPEC production cuts. Unless we increase Supply, we will continue to see an increase in gas prices, because the issue is our domestic supply of oil.
ib1yysguy
Junior Member
The financial experts on NPR disagree. Speculative investing affects price. You bet.
ib1yysguy
Junior Member
It's usually pretty lame when someone pulls out the "do you have reading trouble" bit, but in this case I think I have too because it's just so true.
This is what you said, so you can sit and spin: "The main issue is Supply, not Demand."
The MAIN issue is not either SUPPLY or DEMAND, it's the interaction of the two on a price curve continuum. The fact that you called my very straight forward statement of fact "convoluted bullshit" shows that you never took econ 101 (or didn't pass). If you don't understand what's going on, don't try to act like you do. It doesn't come across well.
By the way, all the studies I've heard about say that drilling in ANWAR will affect the price very little at the pump. Domestic supplies of oil are not sufficient to tilt the world market in our favor. In fact, we sell a hell of a lot of our domestic oil to China anyway. Make your Republicans stop that before you get all high and mighty about tree huggers, Dicks.
ib1yysguy
Junior Member
Start hear and learn something:
http://www.adn.com/anwr/story/414808.html
75 cents a barrel. That's $0.75 out of $100+. And thats before it's refined. By the time you pump it, all you've got is a wasted wildlife refuge.
http://www.adn.com/anwr/story/414808.html
75 cents a barrel. That's $0.75 out of $100+. And thats before it's refined. By the time you pump it, all you've got is a wasted wildlife refuge.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
And Supply is the main issue of the two. If you read half of what else I posted, you certainly found where I said that demand was also important, and we could work to reduce demand while we increase supply. Your retort would indicate you either didn't read or comprehend my previous posts, or you just wanted to deliberately misinterpret what I said.
LMAO... do you even know what you just said? I doubt it! Supply and Demand both effect price, Speculators also effect price, but in an indirect way. A lot of factors effect price, that has never been the point, and I think most of the grown ups here understand that without posting the entire list.
You made a statement that defied logic dude! Here is what you said:
Decreasing demand would affect the equation the same as increasing the supply to a similar degree. You said "the same as" (meaning equal) and then "to a similar degree" (meaning similar, not equal). Both attributes were applied to the same thing, which is convoluted because you can't be equal yet similar to something.
I have a degree in Economics, so I did have to pass Econ 101. You are the one with no economics experience, because you think Speculators control the oil prices!
We sell little or no oil to China. ANWR is just ONE resource of domestic oil, there are numerous resources we have not yet tapped. The domestic oil we produce, offsets the oil we have to buy on the world market, so it doesn't matter how the price on the world market is effected, since we will not be buying oil from there because we have our own source. Why do you pinheads not grasp that concept? Apparently some of you are under a false delusion that we sell all our domestic oil on the world market, then by whatever we need from the world market, and this isn't how it works at all.
Dixie - In Memoriam
New member
No, I was a photographer for a newspaper, and I consider myself an artist. There is no unwritten law that artists can't study economics, is there? I also have a law degree, although I never took the bar, it was mostly for business purposes. I have actually done a number of things in my life, unlike yourself.
ib1yysguy
Junior Member
And all at the same time you're a living legend. Amazing.
uscitizen
Villified User
ANWAR is mainly just a political cry by the right.
If we started full bore on getting oil out of there it would be several years before any go to market.
Now drilling off the FL, CA, East coast is another matter, everything is in place there to get the oil out and transported, etc.
The right does not want that drilled though and hence the cry of ANWAR is pretty much all we hear from them.
If we started full bore on getting oil out of there it would be several years before any go to market.
Now drilling off the FL, CA, East coast is another matter, everything is in place there to get the oil out and transported, etc.
The right does not want that drilled though and hence the cry of ANWAR is pretty much all we hear from them.