Hillary 42 --- Obama 12

Onceler said:
Neither one of them gave the "nominating" speech. Their speeches were nothing like the one you gave. After about a week of hand-wringing, wondering what Clintons would show up & what they would do, the audience that was doing most of the hand-wringing - Democrats - is pretty much universal in their praise for the way that both Clintons were able to come across with sincerity & credibility as truly endorsing Obama, and mainly putting their own interests aside for the good of the party. We know they're egomaniacs, but for this week, they did as well as anyone would have expected or predicted.

But you rightie hacks can't help yourselves; you trip over each other to start these bogus threads on "body language" and "# of times they said I".

You want to make a bet, Damo? I'm betting Bush says "I" and "me" more than he says "McCain." Want to take that bet?
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Nah, I think you are right on that one. However, I do not think most people when making a speech say "I" very often. Very few times in the lectures and speeches I have given (and I do speak often in public) do I use the word "I" other than during my introduction.

Now when people are making speeches about themselves, they will say "I" often. But usually a speech trends toward the topic at hand.

Personally, I do not think it matters at all how often they said "I", what matters is whether they really do convince people of sincerity when they talk about people other than "I".

Bill did a good job, Hillary not so much, IMO. And before you begin being ridiculous again, this site was created for political junkies to speak about their opinion.
 
Onceler said:
Oh, okay. You did a speech. That settles it.

Like I said, let's try a "Dixie" count on a few of the GOP speeches next week.
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Let's do try that! In fact, I will be glad to conduct the same test on any speech from the Pubs during their convention. Let me know who you want to do this with. I'll even give you TWO... pick any TWO speeches! We'll do a side-by-side comparison.

You see, while you think it just means people use the word "I" alot in speeches, I think it means something quite different. It means the speech-giver is focused on themselves. Self-reference only has one intent and meaning, it is not ambiguous. When I say, mine, me, I, my... I can only mean one specific thing. So it's a lot more than people just say "I" a lot in speeches, it is very telling of the speech-giver and their intent and focus of the speech. In the case of the Clinton's, their speeches were all about them, and very little about the nominee they were supposedly endorsing.

Call it a hunch here, but I am willing to bet the republicans have no equivalent to Bill and Hillary when it comes to self-recognition. If Rush Limbaugh were speaking at the RNC, you MIGHT stand a shot at this, but as it stands, he's not on the agenda to speak. Everyone else who speaks for the republican nominee, will mention John McCain far more times than they reference themselves. Don't believe it? We'll see!
 
When you give a speech, you give it from your own perspective.

An example:

"I think this country is ready for change. I know the republicans cannot provide that change. I think the people know that too. I know that Barack Obama can bring us back to where we need to be."



Now in the above passage, I used "I" four times and only mentioned Obama once. But I am not focusing my speech on me. I am building up for Obama.


The word count is meaningless.
 
Dixie said:
Let's do try that! In fact, I will be glad to conduct the same test on any speech from the Pubs during their convention. Let me know who you want to do this with. I'll even give you TWO... pick any TWO speeches! We'll do a side-by-side comparison.

You see, while you think it just means people use the word "I" alot in speeches, I think it means something quite different. It means the speech-giver is focused on themselves. Self-reference only has one intent and meaning, it is not ambiguous. When I say, mine, me, I, my... I can only mean one specific thing. So it's a lot more than people just say "I" a lot in speeches, it is very telling of the speech-giver and their intent and focus of the speech. In the case of the Clinton's, their speeches were all about them, and very little about the nominee they were supposedly endorsing.

Call it a hunch here, but I am willing to bet the republicans have no equivalent to Bill and Hillary when it comes to self-recognition. If Rush Limbaugh were speaking at the RNC, you MIGHT stand a shot at this, but as it stands, he's not on the agenda to speak. Everyone else who speaks for the republican nominee, will mention John McCain far more times than they reference themselves. Don't believe it? We'll see!
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Dixie, you couldn't be more wrong. There are plenty of instances where the speaker can use "I" and not be focusing on themselves.

"I believe that the democratic party is ready to lead this country back where it needs to be. I think Barak Obama is the leader we need. I am behind him 100%. And I know you are too."

Again, four uses of "I" and only one mention of Obama. But its a complete focus on what the party and Obama can do.
 
Dixie said:
Let's do try that! In fact, I will be glad to conduct the same test on any speech from the Pubs during their convention. Let me know who you want to do this with. I'll even give you TWO... pick any TWO speeches! We'll do a side-by-side comparison.

You see, while you think it just means people use the word "I" alot in speeches, I think it means something quite different. It means the speech-giver is focused on themselves. Self-reference only has one intent and meaning, it is not ambiguous. When I say, mine, me, I, my... I can only mean one specific thing. So it's a lot more than people just say "I" a lot in speeches, it is very telling of the speech-giver and their intent and focus of the speech. In the case of the Clinton's, their speeches were all about them, and very little about the nominee they were supposedly endorsing.

Call it a hunch here, but I am willing to bet the republicans have no equivalent to Bill and Hillary when it comes to self-recognition. If Rush Limbaugh were speaking at the RNC, you MIGHT stand a shot at this, but as it stands, he's not on the agenda to speak. Everyone else who speaks for the republican nominee, will mention John McCain far more times than they reference themselves. Don't believe it? We'll see!
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ok... start with...

Monday... Bush and Lieberman
Tuesday.... Rudy and Huckabee
Wednesday...Romney (who I am assuming will be the VP pick... if not then whomever McCain chooses)
 
I can't believe friggin' Lieberman is speaking at the GOP convention. What a demon.

You can take him, and Rudy. I'm guessing over 100 "I's" and "me's" between 'em...
 
Solitary said:
Dixie, you couldn't be more wrong. There are plenty of instances where the speaker can use "I" and not be focusing on themselves.

"I believe that the democratic party is ready to lead this country back where it needs to be. I think Barak Obama is the leader we need. I am behind him 100%. And I know you are too."

Again, four uses of "I" and only one mention of Obama. But its a complete focus on what the party and Obama can do.
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All four usages of the word "I" mean the same thing, don't they? In your example, the speech-giver is not focused on telling us about the person of whom they are speaking, they are focused on telling us what THEY think, believe, feel, know, or are behind. ME ME ME... that's what it says!

As Damo said, when giving a speech of endorsement for someone else, you would actually use self-reference very few times, usually at the beginning and the end of the speech, and mayyyybe once more somewhere in the middle, to give a personal perspective. I have taken public speaking classes, and one of the first things they teach you, is to be aware of over-using self-references like "I" and "my". I can't recall which president it was, may have been Truman or Ike, but their inaugural address did not include the word "I" at all.

Now, I don't think Bill and Hillary are inept at public speaking, or unaware of how to speak in public, I just think they are self-aggrandizing egotists, who can't help talking about their own 'greatness.' Their speeches were designed to clearly promote Hillary, most likely for a 2012 run when Obama loses... which I think they believe is going to happen, just as I do.
 
Onceler said:
I can't believe friggin' Lieberman is speaking at the GOP convention. What a demon.

You can take him, and Rudy. I'm guessing over 100 "I's" and "me's" between 'em...
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It will be interesting to see what the Dems do with him after picking up more Senate seats. The only way they don't punish him is if he makes their number "60".
 
Superfreak said:
It will be interesting to see what the Dems do with him after picking up more Senate seats. The only way they don't punish him is if he makes their number "60".
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McCain's his last shot. He's in the admin if McCain wins, but if he loses, it's political exile for "Joementum."
 
Onceler said:
I can't believe friggin' Lieberman is speaking at the GOP convention. What a demon.

You can take him, and Rudy. I'm guessing over 100 "I's" and "me's" between 'em...
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You're ON!
I predict neither will use self-refs more than Hillary, both will mention McCain more than 12 times. If you lose, I'll just put your ass on my mantle next to AssClown's ass and my collection of other JPP ass. :rolleyes:
 
It's funny that the Republicans that speak at the Democratic National Convention don't get much press coverage.

By the way, how many times did Hillary say "he" or "him" or "we."
 
Onceler said:
McCain's his last shot. He's in the admin if McCain wins, but if he loses, it's political exile for "Joementum."
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I would agree, unless of course he makes them fillabuster proof... then they may tolerate him some more. My guess is that they pick up 6-7 seats and that it won't matter and thus, if McCain loses... Joe's gunna be kinda lonely.
 
Lieberman is almost certain to lose his next election, and once the Democrats don't need him any more they will probably kick him out of the caucus. Bernie Sanders is going to be treated better than Lieberman.
 
Watermark said:
Lieberman is almost certain to lose his next election, and once the Democrats don't need him any more they will probably kick him out of the caucus. Bernie Sanders is going to be treated better than Lieberman.
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Well duh. Democrats already love Socialist Bernie Sanders. Being from Vermont, he gets to say the crazy Marxist things Democrats wish they could say.
 
Dungheap said:
It's funny that the Republicans that speak at the Democratic National Convention don't get much press coverage.

By the way, how many times did Hillary say "he" or "him" or "we."
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It doesn't matter how many times she said "he" or "him" or "we" because those words can have ambiguous meaning, and are not self-references. I will say, on Hillary's speech, I didn't count "I'm" or "I'll" or "I've" ...she may have a few of those self-references as well. I personally think 43-12 is a pretty good indicator of where her focus was in the speech she gave, and I haven't seen that point sufficiently contradicted here.
 
"It doesn't matter how many times she said "he" or "him" or "we" because those words can have ambiguous meaning"

That's a fairly retarded thing to say. For example, if someone says "I heartily endorse Barack Obama. He is ready to lead America!", there is no ambiguity whatsoever in the meaning of "he."

All you have to do is write something, and the betting odds are that it will be fairly retarded.
 
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Onceler said:
"It doesn't matter how many times she said "he" or "him" or "we" because those words can have ambiguous meaning"

That's a fairly retarded thing to say. For example, if someone says "I heartily endorse Barack Obama. He is ready to lead America!", there is no ambiguity whatsoever in the meaning of "he."

All you have to do is write something, and the betting odds are that it will be fairly retarded.
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Why don't you shut up, you sound retarded.

The "ambiguity" is in the meaning of "he" ....who is meant by "he" is ambiguous! It could mean Bill, God, Obama, or any male on the planet! It can't ever mean specifically "self," and is not ever used as a self-reference. The words "me", "my", "I", "mine", are all clearly unambiguous, they ALWAYS mean "self" and are ALWAYS a self-reference.
 
"who is meant by "he" is ambiguous!"

Maybe it is to retarded people from Alabama. If I see "he" in the context of a coherent speech, I can usually place it.
 
Onceler said:
"who is meant by "he" is ambiguous!"

Maybe it is to retarded people from Alabama. If I see "he" in the context of a coherent speech, I can usually place it.
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Yes, but that isn't what I meant by "ambiguous meaning" at all. You are a retard for thinking that! I don't give a flying fuck what kind of speech you give, until you DEFINE who "he" is, no one knows... it is ambiguous! I could count how many times Hillary said "he" but what would it tell me? Was she talking about Bill? Was she talking about Obama? Was she talking about McCain? Was she talking about Biden? Was she talking about God? Just the word "he" doesn't tell me that, IT IS AMBIGUOUS!

Good lord, you morons will absolutely pull anything you can, right out of your ass, to avoid the topic of conversation! Let's all play the little nit-picky word-parsing game here, and get all caught up in a meaningless debate over nothing, because Dixie is cleaning our clocks!

Do you want to have a fucking three page debate over this?
 
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