I know Dem Obama supporters hate to hear this, but....
- Thread starter Cypress
- Start date
i cant help but to notice that the clinton campaign war machine is changing your opinion of obama. they are very effective.. whats the latest? Clinton's are painting obama as the establishment candidate now?
chap, you may not have noticed, but I've never been on either the hillary hate bandwagon, or the obama cheerleader bandwagon.
My beef with hillary is tactical, and has a lot to do with her refusing to back off her Iraq war vote. I'm giving Obama a closer look, because my man Edwards is evidently fading.
And I ain't voting for either her or Obama in the primary. Nor, will she ever see a dime of my money, even in the general election.
Yeah, he attacks fellow dems from the right. I don’t like it. He’s moved to last on my list out of the top three. I was very comfortable putting him there, because as I stated, no doubt in my mind Senator Obama, in 2002, makes that Yes vote.
I don’t appreciate any democrat, in today’s atmosphere, attacking the democratic party from the right.
Well, no one is saying we can’t keeping paying for Iraq and Afghanistan. But mention health care, and everyone wants to know “how are you going to pay for that”? Let’s see what happens when we pull the troops out of Iraq, that should save us a penny or two.
I’m always happier to spend money saving lives rather than taking lives.
Romney’s the only one who we don’t know would actually attack Iran. So I am hoping he takes the nomination, but, I’m not counting on it.
In your mind race became a factor. I watched carefully all of those tapes, the ones of both Hillary and Bill, and in fact in my opinion, they were being attacked over BS.
Neither one of them said anything racist, and neither one are racists.
Well, I'm certainly saying that we can't keep paying for Iraq, and that it is a colossal waste of money.
That's kind of a cop-out, Darla. I prefer spending money on productive things as well, and there certainly is some ROI involved with keeping people healthier, but if we dive into a plan for universal healthcare without a meaningful, measurable way of paying for it, we could easily create a monster that bankrupts this country & really spirals out of control. The negative impact that this would have, in so many areas, would seriously undermine any benefits we hope to gain from such a plan.
the black community's perception was that they did. here is MLK's son:
King's son says Clinton erred
But adds that controversy is overblown
By David Abel, Globe Staff * January 16, 2008
Martin Luther King III, in Boston for an announcement that the city will build a statue to honor his parents, said yesterday that Senator Hillary Clinton made a mistake by saying his father's call for racial equality was realized only with a president's action.
The statement has drawn sharp exchanges in recent days between the campaigns of Clinton and Senator Barack Obama.
King, son of the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. and Coretta Scott King, said he thought the controversy had been blown out of proportion. However, he also said that Clinton's words were potentially denigrating.
"I wish it was said in a different way," he said before addressing a packed Twelfth Baptist Church in Roxbury, where his father once preached.
He added later: "What I think, fundamentally, is that, between the media and the two candidates, a lot is being stirred up. What I assume she was trying to say is that a president needs leadership and vision. I don't believe her intent was to diminish my dad."
Mayor Thomas M. Menino, with King beside him at the church, said a committee will choose an artist and explore potential locations for the statue. The mayor said the city plans to raise money from private donors. He did not say when it would be unveiled or estimate the cost.
Speaking afterward, Councilor Charles Yancey said he had proposed a statue commemorating the Kings in 1999. He said he wants the statue built in City Hall.
"I want my colleagues and the mayor to think about Martin Luther King before they make decisions about a $2.4 billion budget," he said. "I want them to think about Martin Luther King before they make decisions about public safety and public health."
King said a statue in Boston commemorating his parents is important, because the city meant a lot to them. It was where they met. The Kings were educated here in the early 1950s. Martin Luther King Jr. was a doctoral student at Boston University. Coretta Scott King studied voice and violin at the New England Conservatory.
"This is a tremendously special honor to have this statue in a city where my father was educated and met my mother, and where the romance began," King said.
He said he hopes the statue serves as a way for people to learn more about his father, who became the youngest recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts to end legalized racial segregation in the United States. He noted that yesterday would have been his father's 79th birthday. Martin Luther King Jr. was assassinated on April 4, 1968.
In an interview after his address, King said he has not ruled out making an endorsement in the presidential campaign.
"I've been neutral," he said. "I don't know if that's going to change. I was very excited about the fact that Senator Obama was able to win the Iowa primary. I think that was extremely significant. I'm not endorsing anyone at this point. You don't ever want to say you're not going to, but some of that will be a family decision."
He said he wants to see "the best candidate emerge to the top."
"We're blessed to have three candidates still in the race on the Democratic side who would make great presidents," he said. "On the Republican side, I'm not as clear. What I mean by that is that I haven't seen them come forward and embrace the agenda for black and poor people."
Adrian Walker of the Globe staff contributed to this report.
Of the top tier Dems, Edwards is evidently the most serious about ending the Iraq war and pulling the troops out by 2009. Obama, in particular, is still blabbing about leaving combat troops in.
So, if your issue is spending, Obama will continue the occupation, and offer us a weak ass healthcare plan.
Edwards will end the war, and offer a more realistic healthcare plan.
Given that the war costs 12 billion a month, who do you think if being more fiscally responsible? I'd say its a wash at best. And I'd trade war for healthcare any day of the week, and twice on sunday.
Obama blabs about addressing the oncoming economic disaster with "tax cuts". Sound familiar? How'd that work out last time? At least Clinton and Edwards are offering realistic, modest, and proven Kenysian economic stimilus packages. Obama uses reich wing talking points about welfare spending. Can someone please tell Obama that welfare was gutted in 1996, and we can actually address REAL issues now?
And before anyone poo-poos Keynsian economics, recall that reagan had to abandon supply side economic pipe dreams in 1982, and use kenysian principles to prime the economy out of the horrible 1982 recession.
Nah, we already spend far too much on health care, it’s just a matter of where we’re spending it.
And it’s no copout. I am sick and tired of living in a society which values vengeance and death over caring for its citizens.
There is no reason why we can’t have universal health care, true universal health care, medicare for all, single payer in this country. The only reason we don’t have it, is because the South fought Truman on it, they knew it would mean integrating their segregrated hospitals. It gave the insurance industry the time it needed to grow into the monster that it is today.
Single Payer health care is at the top of my list of moral values.
I have no idea how withdrawing our occupying forces from countries that don’t want them there, bringing them home, and spending those billions instead on bringing the so-called “greatest country into the world” up to the standards of many other nations, in how it takes care of its own citizens is a “cop-out” but it’s a copout I’ll cop to any day.
Yeah, he definitely did. The country’s first black billionaire… that was shameful.
But what they were saying about Bill and Hillary, was flatly untrue, when you watched their speeches.
Obama’s surrogates questioned whether Hillary was faking it or not when she teared up.
I think that they better both keep their people on short leashes, because they will split apart the democratic base. Women and African Americans…they drive a wedge through those two groups, they are finished.
So hopefully what we saw last night will hold.
Yeah, certain parts of the black community did feel that way…you did know they’re not monolithic right Chap?
Anyway, I didn’t see it at all, and I can’t make up a story pretending I’m outraged over something I believe never happened, just to satisfy you Chap.
But you are free to march yourself. No one is holding you back.
That's a totally disingenuous argument. I hope you're not implying that I'm arguing in favor of war over providing healthcare.
Have you crunched the #'s? Are you so certain that the money we save from withdrawing from Iraq covers the costs we're talking about here?
I am not opposed to universal healthcare, and philisophically, I believe in what you're saying about the priorities of what it means to be the greatest country in the world, but I am NOT impractical, and I am not in favor of diving headlong into a plan that considers only need & benefit, and not cost & potential financial pitfalls, which could be enormous.
As I said, Hillary's plan, which talks quite a bit about all of the wonderful benefits everyone will receive, talks very little about where we're getting the money to pay for anything, aside from "modernizing" to cut costs....
of course not. Obama would be a substantial improvement over any of the wingnutters.
But, the choice we'll be left with, is either a rightwing war hawk, or a DLC Dem who has bought into the rightwing talking points on NAFTA, corporate governance, and the economy. In short, we won't have a choice of a candidate with a shred of true progressive values. There won't be a candidate that advocates for working americans.
Although, my gut tells me that obama might be pretty good on civil rights, given his background as a constitutional scholar.
There’s a devilish part of me hoping Hillary gets elected just so I can sit back and watch Chap completely disintegrate mentally. I mean, I thought SF was bad – and he is – but there is no one who can outdo Chap when it comes to irrational, over the top, laugh out loud funny, Hillary hate.
I love it man.
Too bad she’s not an actual liberal, then it’d be a win-win for me if she became President.
I love it man.
Too bad she’s not an actual liberal, then it’d be a win-win for me if she became President.