I'd like to give a hearty welcome to Sir Evil...

maineman said:
no...we ought to be fighting Al Qaeda... a wahabbist organization
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Shit! forgot about al qaeda already, well damn, I thought they were in Iraq too, silly me!:rolleyes:

maineman said:
Israel is fighting Hezbollah, an arab nationalist organization.... not the same thing.
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A nationalist orginization? (where is the laughing my ass off smilie?) yeah, they just get the itch once in a while to lob erratic bomb on non military targets when they wanna gain leverage for their cause. It's exactly the same thing! the Lebanese may have elected some of these clown but that is simply because they have no legs to stand up for themselves. Next you will be telling me that some of our homemade militia's would be acceptable government figure if they were to be freely elected.:rolleyes:

And PUH LEEZE don't talk to me about democratic appeasement. Hezbollah killed 250 of our marines in Beirut and Ronnie Raygun tucked his tail between his legs and cut and run like the chickenhawk hollywood fake-as-a-three-dollar-bill hero that he always was. It was THAT act of cowardice that showed the Arabs that we did not have the balls or the stomach to go after folks that attacked us. We didn't have the balls or the stomach to go into Tora Bora and get OBL, preferring instead to go invade Iraq because it was "easier".... this administration's abysmal foreign policy and its even more inept execution of it have led us and the rest of the world to the brink of Hell. Thanks a lot, asshole.[/QUOTE]

Uhmmm, Tora Bora was blasted over & over! the balls & the stomach? is'nt that a good reason to stand together now against the middle east radicals?
Oh, and did you know that there was a time that Iraq was clearly the strength when it comes to militaries in the middle east? I know though, we simply went there to take their oil......:BKick:
 
maineman said:
there is no doubt that 9/11 changed everything...but it does not excuse abysmal counter-productive foreign policy and the even more maddening inept execution thereof.

there were no giant uproars from the right to invade the middle east after Khobar Towers or USS Cole.
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No, there was an expectation that we would sit with our hands beneath our asses and instead of doing something we simply obliged. You cannot blame all terrorism on Reagan, nor can everybody else on Carter. This has been going on far longer than most want to admit and if we start pointing fingers at our political adversaries instead of the problem we only promote what the terrorists actually want.

Saying that all terrorism was caused by Reagan doing nothing after the Marines were blown up in Lebanon is patently laughable. Carter's idiotic foray in warfare trying to save Iranian hostages that failed helped show the "ineptness" they expected us to continue showing... blah, blah...

All that we end up doing is blaming each other rather than facing the problem. Then what do we end up with?
 
you were the one who said we were fighting the same shit they are. Keep track of what you spew.

Al Qaeda is a different kind of organization than hezbollah. I realize that subtle distinctions like sunni and shiite and wahabbist versus nationalist really are difficult to see in black and white world...but the nuances really ARER important. Failing to understand that is what got us into this mess.

and the time of Iraqi military superiority of which you speak was in the past.... the distant past. Since the first gulf war and the sanctions and no fly zones we had imposed on them, they were not a military.

I don't think we went there just for the oil, by the way...I think we went there because PNAC said we should and neocons lapped it up and they used America's thirst for retribution after 9/11 as an excuse to pull it off.
 
maineman said:
you were the one who said we were fighting the same shit they are. Keep track of what you spew.

Al Qaeda is a different kind of organization than hezbollah. I realize that subtle distinctions like sunni and shiite and wahabbist versus nationalist really are difficult to see in black and white world...but the nuances really ARER important. Failing to understand that is what got us into this mess.

and the time of Iraqi military superiority of which you speak was in the past.... the distant past. Since the first gulf war and the sanctions and no fly zones we had imposed on them, they were not a military.

I don't think we went there just for the oil, by the way...I think we went there because PNAC said we should and neocons lapped it up and they used America's thirst for retribution after 9/11 as an excuse to pull it off.
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Hizbollah (translation: Party of God) are Wahabbists and Shi'a, hence the reason they are funded by Iran.
 
Damocles said:
All that we end up doing is blaming each other rather than facing the problem. Then what do we end up with?
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republicans should have asked themselves that question before they impeached a sitting president for a blowjob.
 
maineman said:
republicans should have asked themselves that question before they impeached a sitting president for a blowjob.
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Whatever. The point is blaming Reagan for Clinton's escapades or blaming Rs because they impeached Clinton for lying under oath about his escapades, or blaming Clinton keeps us from actually facing and discussing the problem. Then when the stuff hits the fan we end up on overkill, it's the American way!

We simply blame each other for everything. Even for what terrorists do rather than actually work towards the solution. Then when we realize we should have been facing up to it someway for decades we go into overdrive and turn into an attack dog. Both times we act before we engage our brains.

I don't care how upset you are about Clinton, it is important to put America before Clinton's rather shaggy honor.
 
maineman said:
sow the wind...reap the whirlwind
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Dude, seriously now, are you moving to Canada if the dems don't overtake? Are you going to go on hating life if it does'nt reside on your ideaologies? well, it's cool, we all need to have some hate for one another.......right?
 
maineman said:
sow the wind...reap the whirlwind
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Right, keep that in mind... When it all comes right down to it and you realize that you should keep America before Partisanship even if your opponent supposedly didn't, I guess we can hold a decent conversation then. Either be what you expect others to be, or just admit you are part of the problem.
 
Damocles said:
Hizbollah (translation: Party of God) are Wahabbists and Shi'a, hence the reason they are funded by Iran.
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bullshit.

Wahhabism (Arabic: الوهابية, Wahabism, Wahabbism) is a Sunni fundamentalist Islamic movement, named after Muhammad ibn Abd al Wahhab (1703–1792). It is the dominant form of Islam in Saudi Arabia and Qatar. Many members of the movement object to the term "Wahhabism", preferring the term "Salafism".

Wahabbists are not shia.... and they do not seek individual nation-states, regardless of how theocratic, in the region.... Hezbollah and Iran do not have the same goals as wahabbism.
 
maineman said:
Hezbollah and Iran do not have the same goals as wahabbism.
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:gives:
The radicals are spreading like wildfire and you are trying to give history lessons, I don't care if they are wahbo cabo, if they support terrorism they need to be eliminated!
 
maineman said:
bullshit.

Wahhabism (Arabic: الوهابية, Wahabism, Wahabbism) is a Sunni fundamentalist Islamic movement, named after Muhammad ibn Abd al Wahhab (1703–1792). It is the dominant form of Islam in Saudi Arabia and Qatar. Many members of the movement object to the term "Wahhabism", preferring the term "Salafism".

Wahabbists are not shia.... and they do not seek individual nation-states, regardless of how theocratic, in the region.... Hezbollah and Iran do not have the same goals as wahabbism.
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Ooops, I was going backwards. It is the Sunnis that believe in the Imamam (the devine right of the Imam and their infallibility...)

What the Imam teaches, so the religion goes. OBL is Sunni, Iran is Sunni, and so is this Hizbollah.. To say that they are "Nationalists" and not trying to set us up with their religion as our government is foolish.
 
Damocles said:
Right, keep that in mind... When it all comes right down to it and you realize that you should keep America before Partisanship even if your opponent supposedly didn't, I guess we can hold a decent conversation then. Either be what you expect others to be, or just admit you are part of the problem.
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you know me damo.... I love america and I can hold decent conversations...it was YOUR buddy Evil who laid down the gauntlet with:"but I saw the years of failed negotiations and appeasement from your supporting administrations."
implying that democrats are the appeasers...I only pointed out how assinine such a statement was.

I can remember how FURIOUS I was at Jimmy Carter.... a fellow Annapolis grad for crissakes, when he did not bomb Tehran into the stone age when our embassy was taken..... I know that both sides have done stupid shit in the past.... and if Evil would be as gracious as to acknowledge the same, I wouldn't have to bitch slap him
 
maineman said:
you know me damo.... I love america and I can hold decent conversations...it was YOUR buddy Evil who laid down the gauntlet with:"but I saw the years of failed negotiations and appeasement from your supporting administrations."
implying that democrats are the appeasers...I only pointed out how assinine such a statement was.

I can remember how FURIOUS I was at Jimmy Carter.... a fellow Annapolis grad for crissakes, when he did not bomb Tehran into the stone age when our embassy was taken..... I know that both sides have done stupid shit in the past.... and if Evil would be as gracious as to acknowledge the same, I wouldn't have to bitch slap him
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However it was ME that you kept saying "Well you should have thought of that before you guys went and Impeached Clinton!" stuff to...
 
Damocles said:
Ooops, I was going backwards. It is the Sunnis that believe in the Imamam (the devine right of the Imam and their infallibility...)

What the Imam teaches, so the religion goes. OBL is Sunni, Iran is Sunni, and so is this Hizbollah.. To say that they are "Nationalists" and not trying to set us up with their religion as our government is foolish.
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They are Wahhabist Sunni Muslims, just like OBL, just like Iranian Leadership...
 
maineman said:
and if Evil would be as gracious as to acknowledge the same, I wouldn't have to bitch slap him
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Already have, never said I was behind the right with everything. Don't be angry with me because I equate dems with fairies of late, it was'ntm always my opinion. I thought Clinton laying down a little pipe in the white house was cool, and that is the truth not a wisecrack, but he sucked big time otherwise.

Oh, and when you come to deliver that bitchslap can ya do it on my fanny? I love it when you dems get so steamed that you resort to violent sex right away! :cool:
 
maineman said:
you know me damo.... I love america and I can hold decent conversations...it was YOUR buddy Evil who laid down the gauntlet with:"but I saw the years of failed negotiations and appeasement from your supporting administrations."
implying that democrats are the appeasers...I only pointed out how assinine such a statement was.

I can remember how FURIOUS I was at Jimmy Carter.... a fellow Annapolis grad for crissakes, when he did not bomb Tehran into the stone age when our embassy was taken..... I know that both sides have done stupid shit in the past.... and if Evil would be as gracious as to acknowledge the same, I wouldn't have to bitch slap him
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Right, but what you stated was in answer to one of my posts. You told me that I should have thought of that before Clinton... blah, blah. It was exactly what I was speaking of. As long as we let others goad us into such dogmatic partisanship so we cannot work together then the terrorists are simply given what they want.

We really do need to engage the brain before we act (as a nation, not as individuals well that too, but not the point here)...
 
Okay, anyway, what I know is that they are of the same ilk as Iran, that Iran funds them, that they believe in the Perfection of the Imam (called Imamam) and that they DO want to spread their religion...

http://hnn.us/articles/934.html

If you really think that Shi'a are some benevolent force that aren't attempting to spread religion through the sword then you really are being deliberate in ignoring certain terrorism...
 
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