I'm ready for Socialism...

Grind said:
Call taking money from the rich and giving it to the poor whatever you like. Im disgusted that some supposed libertarians are going to be supporting obama. "LOL WHO THE FUCK CARES? IM NOT IN THE 5 PERCENT FUCK THEM." makes me sick.
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It is their money and they want to keep it.

Do we care about the top 5% ?
 
Grind said:
Call taking money from the rich and giving it to the poor whatever you like. Im disgusted that some supposed libertarians are going to be supporting obama. "LOL WHO THE FUCK CARES? IM NOT IN THE 5 PERCENT FUCK THEM." makes me sick.
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Bob Barr is a tool and I'm not voting for McCain. I don't sit out elections.

I'm voting for Obama primarily because I think he may be the first President to actually work to end the Drug War. I am also genuinely excited about being a part of the first election of a black president. It represents the crossing of a barrier that has lasted since long before our parents generation.
 
I am concerned about what happens to the top 5%.

Whether its right or wrong does not depend on whether they can afford it.
 
Solitary said:
I am concerned about what happens to the top 5%.

Whether its right or wrong does not depend on whether they can afford it.
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right or wrong ?

It is about balance, and what is best for America in the long run, not right or wrong.
Our representative govt is set up in part to help offset the power of the wealthy.
 
uscitizen said:
Well I don't really.

although I might be in the edge of that this year.
They / we are not hurting.
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No, but they/we are going to be.

It is your mentality that endangers American capitalism and to a larger degree, democracy itself. The Top 5% are already carrying the bulk of the tax burden in this country, we are already a 'socialist' nation, Obama's plans will simply push that to the extreme. You, like many other Americans, are caught up in the jealousy and envy of class warfare. It's easy to understand why it's so popular for 95% of the population to vote on raising the taxes of 5% of the population, but when the 5% are already paying far more than their share, it is extremely dangerous.

We see evidence in the market now, of what is to come. These "rich people" Obama and you plan to tax, who you feel can afford it and are not hurting, are simply going to stop generating wealth. They have no need to do so, they have plenty of wealth already, there is no motivation for them to generate more, particularly if it is going to be confiscated by the government. So when this happens (as we are seeing it start to happen now) what are you going to do? Better yet, what is Obama going to do? Without "the rich" generating wealth, there is nothing to tax! Without anything to tax, there is no revenue, and with no revenue, there can be no spending. All of these pipe-dream programs and initiatives he's promised, can not be funded, and the taxes will have to be increased on the middle class, it's the only way to pay the bills.

Myself? I am going to be fishing in the Caribbean, oblivious to these problems, and soaking up the sun along with every 'entitlement' I can squeeze out of the anti-capitalist liberal administration. I am part of that 5% at the top, or at least, I was a part of it, not anymore... I am not generating one red cent of wealth anymore, and I am not alone. You want your liberal socialist utopia, you'll have to find some other way to pay for it. Print some more currency... run the national debt up a few more trillion... I don't care, do whatever, it doesn't matter to me, I am through talking. You idiots seem to have all the answers and know more than the rest of us, you figure it out!

...Just make sure to send me my check!
 
Epicurus said:
Bob Barr is a tool and I'm not voting for McCain. I don't sit out elections.

I'm voting for Obama primarily because I think he may be the first President to actually work to end the Drug War. I am also genuinely excited about being a part of the first election of a black president. It represents the crossing of a barrier that has lasted since long before our parents generation.
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Ironically, Obama is going to be the worst thing that ever happened to black people in politics. Oh, I can certainly understand the excitement and fervor of the black community, at the opportunity to elect the first black man president, I just think this is the wrong black man. His administration is going to be the most embattled and controversial administrations in history, and it will not leave a good taste in anyone's mouth, when all is said and done. After this, it will be a long time before Americans elect another black person president. Call that 'racism' if you like, I'm not the one voting based on skin color here.
 
Dixie said:
No, but they/we are going to be.

It is your mentality that endangers American capitalism and to a larger degree, democracy itself. The Top 5% are already carrying the bulk of the tax burden in this country, we are already a 'socialist' nation, Obama's plans will simply push that to the extreme. You, like many other Americans, are caught up in the jealousy and envy of class warfare. It's easy to understand why it's so popular for 95% of the population to vote on raising the taxes of 5% of the population, but when the 5% are already paying far more than their share, it is extremely dangerous.
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Dixie, the top 5% pay so much because they make an incredible amount of money. Even if our tax was flat they would pay a majority of the taxes.

Are you arguing for a head tax for each individual? So that as you make more money, you pay less and less of it in taxes?
 
Dixie said:
We see evidence in the market now, of what is to come. These "rich people" Obama and you plan to tax, who you feel can afford it and are not hurting, are simply going to stop generating wealth. They have no need to do so, they have plenty of wealth already, there is no motivation for them to generate more, particularly if it is going to be confiscated by the government. So when this happens (as we are seeing it start to happen now) what are you going to do? Better yet, what is Obama going to do? Without "the rich" generating wealth, there is nothing to tax! Without anything to tax, there is no revenue, and with no revenue, there can be no spending. All of these pipe-dream programs and initiatives he's promised, can not be funded, and the taxes will have to be increased on the middle class, it's the only way to pay the bills.
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Did they do this in the 90's Dixie? Which is where Clinton raised taxes on the rich to the level Obama is proposing.

What about the 50's when the tax was 95%?

Both periods were times of unparalleled prosperity.
 
Dixie said:
Myself? I am going to be fishing in the Caribbean, oblivious to these problems, and soaking up the sun along with every 'entitlement' I can squeeze out of the anti-capitalist liberal administration. I am part of that 5% at the top, or at least, I was a part of it, not anymore... I am not generating one red cent of wealth anymore, and I am not alone. You want your liberal socialist utopia, you'll have to find some other way to pay for it. Print some more currency... run the national debt up a few more trillion... I don't care, do whatever, it doesn't matter to me, I am through talking. You idiots seem to have all the answers and know more than the rest of us, you figure it out!
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ANd you made this money when? The 90's?

You crack me up Dixie.

Yeah I'm a millionaire too! We're all millionaires, and we all have like 10 degrees!
 
uscitizen said:
right or wrong ?

It is about balance, and what is best for America in the long run, not right or wrong.
Our representative govt is set up in part to help offset the power of the wealthy.
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And its about everyone paying their taxes. This idea that we soak the rich so that everyone else gets off paying less, is simply wrong.
 
Solitary said:
And its about everyone paying their taxes. This idea that we soak the rich so that everyone else gets off paying less, is simply wrong.
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That would be true if the rich didn't pay off government to tilt the policies of the nation in their favor in the first place.
 
Watermark said:
If it is wrong to have a strong working and middle class, then I am wrong.
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I have never said its wrong to have a strong working class, a strong middle class, or any other class.

I am simply opposed to expecting the top 5% to foot the bill for the bottom 50% or more.
 
Solitary said:
And its about everyone paying their taxes. This idea that we soak the rich so that everyone else gets off paying less, is simply wrong.
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the rich get off paying a lower percentage than the upper middle working class do.

I read a study about a year ago where thet the tax dollars saved by bush's tax cuts for hedge fund managers alone was about equal to whant CHIPS costs.
I just want them to pay their fair percentage. I ask no more of them than I do of myself.
 
Solitary said:
And bribing government officials is illegal.
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Well then it must never happen. And what about lobbying and campaign contributions? Legal payola right there.

What do you call it when people go from private industry then into government then back again, sculpting policy to favor their corporations? Then there's heavily fattened government contracts. And there are bailouts, and there and laws written to tilt entire industries to favor the existing big players and squeeze out the little guy.

You live in a fairy tale world.

and there's also this:

Feds probe Countrywide's 'VIP' program
Posted on Thursday, October 30, 2008 7:03 AM ET
Filed Under: Politics
By Lisa Myers & Amna Nawaz, NBC News

The wide-ranging criminal investigation into wrongdoing at Countrywide - once the nation's largest mortgage originator - now includes serious scrutiny of a loan program that provided special mortgage deals to the well-connected and powerful, including two U.S. senators.

NBC News has learned that Robert Feinberg - a former Countrywide loan officer who handled what were known as the "VIP" mortgages - spent six hours last Thursday with a six-person team from the Justice Department. The team included prosecutors from the Public Integrity section, which handles investigations of possible public corruption.


"The Justice Department is making very serious inquiry into any possible wrongdoing that may involve (former Countrywide CEO) Angelo Mozilo, other Countrywide employees, Sen. Chris Dodd, Sen. Kent Conrad, (former Fannie Mae CEO) Franklin Raines or other public officials," said Feinberg's lawyer, Anthony Salerno. "Robert has always cooperated thoroughly with authorities and is strictly a witness in their investigation."

'Friends of Angelo's'
Salerno said the prosecutors and FBI agents seemed focused on whether the preferential treatment given to VIP customers was part of an effort by Countrywide to buy influence - as well as on the conduct of each public official who received a mortgage from Countrywide.
 
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Dixie said:
Ironically, Obama is going to be the worst thing that ever happened to black people in politics. Oh, I can certainly understand the excitement and fervor of the black community, at the opportunity to elect the first black man president, I just think this is the wrong black man. His administration is going to be the most embattled and controversial administrations in history, and it will not leave a good taste in anyone's mouth, when all is said and done. After this, it will be a long time before Americans elect another black person president. Call that 'racism' if you like, I'm not the one voting based on skin color here.
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I think you're very wrong. But I also think we have very different perspectives on this despite being from the same state.

My father's family marched with Dr. King in Birmingham. They got called a lot of names and took a lot of shit for it. People would call them niggerlovers and race traitors. Nov. 4 will be the culmination of generations worth of suffering and sacrifice, on the part of both black and white people.

When you argue that the election of the first black president will be a horrible thing for black people, you sound just like braindead liberals arguing that the election of Palin as a female VP would be a setback for women.
 
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