Is consciousness an inherent property of the universe

BidenPresident said:
I think intelligence is a basic element of the universe. It did not emerge from anything. This is the theory of panpsychism.
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Intelligence = a trait of personality [ie empathy, beauty, love]

"Order" = defying entropy; organisational sequence structuring.


Intelligence used in the quote equates to a subjective POV.
 
bhaktajan said:
Intelligence = a trait of personality [ie empathy, beauty, love]

"Order" = defying entropy; organisational sequence structuring.


Intelligence used in the quote equates to a subjective POV.
Click to expand...

Intelligence only come from humans? How does the planet know how to move around the sun? Intelligence is not just caused by the brain.
 
BidenPresident said:
Intelligence only come from humans? How does the planet know how to move around the sun? Intelligence is not just caused by the brain.
Click to expand...

Semantically the words
a] Intelligence [is a descriptive word akin to "love, beauty, compassion"]

is being conflated with the word

b] order

noun
1. the arrangement or disposition of people or things in relation to each other according to a particular sequence, pattern, or method.
"I filed the cards in alphabetical order"


The universe demonstrates "order" in contrast with dis-order.

The living being perceives "Intelligence" in the symmetrical order of flower petals.
 
bhaktajan said:
Semantically the words
a] Intelligence [is a descriptive word akin to "love, beauty, compassion"]

is being conflated with the word

b] order

noun
1. the arrangement or disposition of people or things in relation to each other according to a particular sequence, pattern, or method.
"I filed the cards in alphabetical order"


The universe demonstrates "order" in contrast with dis-order.

The living being perceives "Intelligence" in the symmetrical order of flower petals.
Click to expand...

Yes, I am saying intelligence is not a function of subjectivity.
 
There are two schools of thought:

The personalist

and the

impersonalist.

In the impersonalist school, we living beings perceive that we live for a short time for two sure things:
enjoyment and suffering [suffering being anything besides enjoyment, ie work, taxes & dying & illness etal]

So like the buddhist, the remedy is to escape the facts of life that there is meager enjoyment moored to suffering.

Or like the hedonist, the remedy is to eat drink and be merry whilst forgetting the chores of concomitant suffering.

OTOH

In the personalist school, we are orphans seeking the face of the father/mother, lost in a cosmos that reflects a purpose that aims to refine personal traits as a prerequisite to relinking with the source of persona, aka Godhead's entourage.
 
bhaktajan said:
There are two schools of thought:

The personalist

and the

impersonalist.

In the impersonalist school, we living beings perceive that we live for a short time for two sure things:
enjoyment and suffering [suffering being anything besides enjoyment, ie work, taxes & dying & illness etal]

So like the buddhist, the remedy is to escape the facts of life that there is meager enjoyment moored to suffering.

Or like the hedonist, the remedy is to eat drink and be merry whilst forgetting the chores of concomitant suffering.

OTOH

In the personalist school, we are orphans seeking the face of the father/mother, lost in a cosmos that reflects a purpose that aims to refine personal traits as a prerequisite to relinking with the source of persona, aka Godhead's entourage.
Click to expand...

None of those make sense.
We don't transcend the world by pretending it does not exist.
Hedonism is equally nihilistic.
 
BidenPresident said:
None of those make sense.
We don't transcend the world by pretending it does not exist.
Hedonism is equally nihilistic.
Click to expand...

"Hedonism is equally nihilistic" ---Yes that's is how I grouped it above.

To many, atheism—the lack of belief in a personal god or gods—may appear an entirely modern concept. After all, it would seem that it is religious traditions that have dominated the world since the beginning of recorded history. As a scholar of Asian religions, however, I’m often struck by the prevalence of atheism and agnosticism—the view that it is impossible to know whether a god exists—in ancient Asian texts. Atheistic traditions have played a significant part in Asian cultures for millennia. While Buddhism is a tradition focused on spiritual liberation, it is not a theistic religion. The Buddha himself rejected the idea of a creator god, and Buddhist philosophers have even argued that belief in an eternal god is nothing but a distraction for humans seeking enlightenment.

While Buddhism does not argue that gods don’t exist, gods are seen as completely irrelevant to those who strive for enlightenment.

A similar form of functional atheism can also be found in the ancient Asian religion of Jainism, a tradition that emphasises non-violence toward all living beings, non-attachment to worldly possessions, and ascetic practice. While Jains believe in an eternal soul, or jiva, that can be reborn, they do not believe in a divine creator. According to Jainism, the universe is eternal, and while gods may exist, they too must be reborn, just like humans are. The gods play no role in spiritual liberation and enlightenment; humans must find their own path to enlightenment with the help of wise human teachers.

Other atheistic philosophies

Around the same time when Buddhism and Jainism arose in the sixth century BC, there was also an explicitly atheist school of thought in India called the Carvaka school. Although none of their original texts have survived, Buddhist and Hindu authors describe the Carvakas as firm atheists who believed that nothing existed beyond the material world. To the Carvakas, there was no life after death, no soul apart from the body, no gods and no world other than this one.

Another school of thought, Ajivika, which flourished around the same time, similarly argued that gods didn’t exist, although its followers did believe in a soul and in rebirth.

The Ajivikas claimed that the fate of the soul was determined by fate alone, and not by a god, or even by free will. The Ajivikas taught that everything was made up of atoms, but that these atoms were moving and combining with each other in predestined ways.

Like the Carvaka school, the Ajivika school is today only known from texts composed by Hindus, Buddhists and Jains. It is therefore difficult to determine exactly what the Ajivikas themselves thought.

According to Buddhist texts, the Ajivikas argued that there was no distinction between good and evil and there was no such thing as sin. The school may have existed around the same time as early Buddhism, in the fifth century BC.

Atheism in Hinduism

While the Hindu tradition of India embraces the belief in many gods and goddesses—330 million of them, according to some sources—there are also atheistic strands of thought found within Hinduism. The Samkhya school of Hindu philosophy is one such example. It believes that humans can achieve liberation for themselves by freeing their own spirit from the realm of matter.

Another example is the Mimamsa school. This school also rejects the idea of a creator God. The Mimamsa philosopher Kumarila said that if a god had created the world by himself in the beginning, how could anyone else possibly confirm it? Kumarila further argued that if a merciful god had created the world, it could not have been as full of suffering as it is. According to the 2011 census, there were approximately 2.9 million atheists in India. Atheism is still a significant cultural force in India, as well as in other Asian countries influenced by Indian religions.
https://qz.com/india/1585631/the-ancient-connections-between-atheism-buddhism-and-hinduism/
 
bhaktajan said:
"Hedonism is equally nihilistic" ---Yes that's is how I grouped it above.

To many, atheism—the lack of belief in a personal god or gods—may appear an entirely modern concept. After all, it would seem that it is religious traditions that have dominated the world since the beginning of recorded history. As a scholar of Asian religions, however, I’m often struck by the prevalence of atheism and agnosticism—the view that it is impossible to know whether a god exists—in ancient Asian texts. Atheistic traditions have played a significant part in Asian cultures for millennia. While Buddhism is a tradition focused on spiritual liberation, it is not a theistic religion. The Buddha himself rejected the idea of a creator god, and Buddhist philosophers have even argued that belief in an eternal god is nothing but a distraction for humans seeking enlightenment.

While Buddhism does not argue that gods don’t exist, gods are seen as completely irrelevant to those who strive for enlightenment.

A similar form of functional atheism can also be found in the ancient Asian religion of Jainism, a tradition that emphasises non-violence toward all living beings, non-attachment to worldly possessions, and ascetic practice. While Jains believe in an eternal soul, or jiva, that can be reborn, they do not believe in a divine creator. According to Jainism, the universe is eternal, and while gods may exist, they too must be reborn, just like humans are. The gods play no role in spiritual liberation and enlightenment; humans must find their own path to enlightenment with the help of wise human teachers.

Other atheistic philosophies

Around the same time when Buddhism and Jainism arose in the sixth century BC, there was also an explicitly atheist school of thought in India called the Carvaka school. Although none of their original texts have survived, Buddhist and Hindu authors describe the Carvakas as firm atheists who believed that nothing existed beyond the material world. To the Carvakas, there was no life after death, no soul apart from the body, no gods and no world other than this one.

Another school of thought, Ajivika, which flourished around the same time, similarly argued that gods didn’t exist, although its followers did believe in a soul and in rebirth.

The Ajivikas claimed that the fate of the soul was determined by fate alone, and not by a god, or even by free will. The Ajivikas taught that everything was made up of atoms, but that these atoms were moving and combining with each other in predestined ways.

Like the Carvaka school, the Ajivika school is today only known from texts composed by Hindus, Buddhists and Jains. It is therefore difficult to determine exactly what the Ajivikas themselves thought.

According to Buddhist texts, the Ajivikas argued that there was no distinction between good and evil and there was no such thing as sin. The school may have existed around the same time as early Buddhism, in the fifth century BC.

Atheism in Hinduism

While the Hindu tradition of India embraces the belief in many gods and goddesses—330 million of them, according to some sources—there are also atheistic strands of thought found within Hinduism. The Samkhya school of Hindu philosophy is one such example. It believes that humans can achieve liberation for themselves by freeing their own spirit from the realm of matter.

Another example is the Mimamsa school. This school also rejects the idea of a creator God. The Mimamsa philosopher Kumarila said that if a god had created the world by himself in the beginning, how could anyone else possibly confirm it? Kumarila further argued that if a merciful god had created the world, it could not have been as full of suffering as it is. According to the 2011 census, there were approximately 2.9 million atheists in India. Atheism is still a significant cultural force in India, as well as in other Asian countries influenced by Indian religions.
https://qz.com/india/1585631/the-ancient-connections-between-atheism-buddhism-and-hinduism/
Click to expand...


Okay. But I am not going to read a copy and paste of what someone else said.

If you have an argument to make, make. I don't need to see a bunch of information.
 
BidenPresident said:
Okay. But I am not going to read a copy and paste of what someone else said.

If you have an argument to make, make. I don't need to see a bunch of information.
Click to expand...

I said it first in brevity in my own words ---and then I posted a source that backs it up.


I am not having a problem explaining the topic. It's old hat
 
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