...Just be good for goodness sake!

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

In what is becoming a holiday tradition, the Atheists are running a God-bashing billboard campaign for Christmas. Buses in NY are emblazoned with the phrase: "Why believe in God, just be good for goodness sake!"

While Christmas is celebrated by Christians and secular non-believers alike, the word "Christmas" literally means, "Christ's Mass" and is the celebration of the birth of Jesus of Nazareth. The date of December 25th, is not believed to be the actual birth date of Jesus, and it is likely this is a 'paganization' of the celebration, combining the tradition with the celebration of Winter Solstice.

It is interesting the Atheists focus on the date of Christian celebration of the birth of the Messiah, to promote their alternative philosophy. It would seem, one of the other 364 days of the year, would be more respectful and understanding of their fellow man, and would better exemplify "goodness" in their hearts. But this leads us to the point of the thread, and the discussion at hand.

How can one be "good for goodness sake" alone? Without a moral foundation for "goodness" what does it mean? What is the fundamental purpose of "being good" if there is no consequence for not "being good" and nothing to clarify or define what "goodness" is? What possible motivation could one have, for exhibiting "goodness" when there is no accountability or consequences? And where is "goodness" universally defined by Atheists? Isn't it in fact, a largely individual philosophy and standard?

I catch a lot of flack here as a "right-wing religious zealot" but my personal faith is not Christianity, I am a Spiritualist. I believe there was a man born in Nazareth named Jesus, and he was a great and profound speaker and philosopher, who had a deep and powerful message for humanity. I respect what he taught, because I believe it has merit in terms of living a "good" life. That said, I personally believe in a Spiritual entity not defined by Christianity or any other organized religious belief. What I believe in, is more like an "energy source" or "power" which courses through our universe. Those who believe in this entity are able to sometimes 'tap in' to the force, and gain wisdom and understanding of the universe around them. In any event, I base "goodness" on what is in harmony with my Spiritual understanding of "good" versus "evil" and nothing more.

Although I am not a Christian, I celebrate Christmas with my family and loved ones, some of whom are Christians, and I respect their beliefs and customs. I would certainly never use the day of their celebration for the birth of Jesus, as a platform for my personal beliefs. It's because I respect what they believe in their hearts, just as strongly as what I believe in mine. But, an Atheist has no beliefs. Therefore, they can't comprehend or understand what is in the hearts of others, nor can they bring themselves to respect it.

Be good for goodness sake? It's a nice thought, but wholly unrealistic in fundamental principle.

 

[Cancel3]

In what is becoming a holiday tradition, the Atheists are running a God-bashing billboard campaign for Christmas. Buses in NY are emblazoned with the phrase: "Why believe in God, just be good for goodness sake!"

While Christmas is celebrated by Christians and secular non-believers alike, the word "Christmas" literally means, "Christ's Mass" and is the celebration of the birth of Jesus of Nazareth. The date of December 25th, is not believed to be the actual birth date of Jesus, and it is likely this is a 'paganization' of the celebration, combining the tradition with the celebration of Winter Solstice.

It is interesting the Atheists focus on the date of Christian celebration of the birth of the Messiah, to promote their alternative philosophy. It would seem, one of the other 364 days of the year, would be more respectful and understanding of their fellow man, and would better exemplify "goodness" in their hearts. But this leads us to the point of the thread, and the discussion at hand.

How can one be "good for goodness sake" alone? Without a moral foundation for "goodness" what does it mean? What is the fundamental purpose of "being good" if there is no consequence for not "being good" and nothing to clarify or define what "goodness" is? What possible motivation could one have, for exhibiting "goodness" when there is no accountability or consequences? And where is "goodness" universally defined by Atheists? Isn't it in fact, a largely individual philosophy and standard?

I catch a lot of flack here as a "right-wing religious zealot" but my personal faith is not Christianity, I am a Spiritualist. I believe there was a man born in Nazareth named Jesus, and he was a great and profound speaker and philosopher, who had a deep and powerful message for humanity. I respect what he taught, because I believe it has merit in terms of living a "good" life. That said, I personally believe in a Spiritual entity not defined by Christianity or any other organized religious belief. What I believe in, is more like an "energy source" or "power" which courses through our universe. Those who believe in this entity are able to sometimes 'tap in' to the force, and gain wisdom and understanding of the universe around them. In any event, I base "goodness" on what is in harmony with my Spiritual understanding of "good" versus "evil" and nothing more.

Although I am not a Christian, I celebrate Christmas with my family and loved ones, some of whom are Christians, and I respect their beliefs and customs. I would certainly never use the day of their celebration for the birth of Jesus, as a platform for my personal beliefs. It's because I respect what they believe in their hearts, just as strongly as what I believe in mine. But, an Atheist has no beliefs. Therefore, they can't comprehend or understand what is in the hearts of others, nor can they bring themselves to respect it.

Be good for goodness sake? It's a nice thought, but wholly unrealistic in fundamental principle.

I disagree. I think being good without the threat of punishment or bribe means far more.


Consider the reasons for being good.

I can be good to my fellow man because I am afraid of hell if I don't. Is that actually being good? No, that is simply avoiding punishment. Is says nothing about my actual intentions.

I can be good to my fellow man to earn a spot in heaven. Is that actually being good? I don't think so. In fact, it is the equivilent of being hired to be nice.

I can be good to my fellow man because I recognize them as my brethren and deserving of compassion. There is no motivation other than my being good to people. I am not trying to get something for it. Nor am I trying to avoid punishment.

I am being good for the sake of being good.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

In what is becoming a holiday tradition, the Atheists are running a God-bashing billboard campaign for Christmas. Buses in NY are emblazoned with the phrase: "Why believe in God, just be good for goodness sake!"

While Christmas is celebrated by Christians and secular non-believers alike, the word "Christmas" literally means, "Christ's Mass" and is the celebration of the birth of Jesus of Nazareth. The date of December 25th, is not believed to be the actual birth date of Jesus, and it is likely this is a 'paganization' of the celebration, combining the tradition with the celebration of Winter Solstice.

It is interesting the Atheists focus on the date of Christian celebration of the birth of the Messiah, to promote their alternative philosophy. It would seem, one of the other 364 days of the year, would be more respectful and understanding of their fellow man, and would better exemplify "goodness" in their hearts. But this leads us to the point of the thread, and the discussion at hand.

How can one be "good for goodness sake" alone? Without a moral foundation for "goodness" what does it mean? What is the fundamental purpose of "being good" if there is no consequence for not "being good" and nothing to clarify or define what "goodness" is? What possible motivation could one have, for exhibiting "goodness" when there is no accountability or consequences? And where is "goodness" universally defined by Atheists? Isn't it in fact, a largely individual philosophy and standard?

I catch a lot of flack here as a "right-wing religious zealot" but my personal faith is not Christianity, I am a Spiritualist. I believe there was a man born in Nazareth named Jesus, and he was a great and profound speaker and philosopher, who had a deep and powerful message for humanity. I respect what he taught, because I believe it has merit in terms of living a "good" life. That said, I personally believe in a Spiritual entity not defined by Christianity or any other organized religious belief. What I believe in, is more like an "energy source" or "power" which courses through our universe. Those who believe in this entity are able to sometimes 'tap in' to the force, and gain wisdom and understanding of the universe around them. In any event, I base "goodness" on what is in harmony with my Spiritual understanding of "good" versus "evil" and nothing more.

Although I am not a Christian, I celebrate Christmas with my family and loved ones, some of whom are Christians, and I respect their beliefs and customs. I would certainly never use the day of their celebration for the birth of Jesus, as a platform for my personal beliefs. It's because I respect what they believe in their hearts, just as strongly as what I believe in mine. But, an Atheist has no beliefs. Therefore, they can't comprehend or understand what is in the hearts of others, nor can they bring themselves to respect it.

Be good for goodness sake? It's a nice thought, but wholly unrealistic in fundamental principle.

Is it? Please explain why a rational person needs to have a foundation in some outdated, ancient set of superstitions to have a proper foundation in morals or ethics? Isn't what is really required, for a foundation in ethics and morals, is a foundation in rational and critical thought?

btw, I'm not an athiest. I'm an apathist. I just don't really care about religion. I find it the only thing more excruciatingly boring than reading the Code of Federal Regulations but that's just me. I think militant atheist are as big a pain in the ass as evengelicals and for the same reason.

 

[Cancel3]

Is it? Please explain why a rational person needs to have a foundation in some outdated, ancient set of superstitions to have a proper foundation in morals or ethics? Isn't what is really required, for a foundation in ethics and morals, is a foundation in rational and critical thought?

btw, I'm not an athiest. I'm an apathist. I just don't really care about religion. I find it the only thing more excruciatingly boring than reading the Code of Federal Regulations but that's just me. I think militant atheist are as big a pain in the ass as evengelicals and for the same reason.

I think the militant athiests and evangelicals are equally ridiculous. I agree with you there.

 

[uscitizen]

So sad that so many do not know the history of Christmas.

 

[Damocles]

It's better than the governor of a state letting them put hate speech as an "Atheist Symbol" at the Capital.

And many Atheists have been good for "goodness sake" for a very long time.

 

[Jarod]

In what is becoming a holiday tradition, the Atheists are running a God-bashing billboard campaign for Christmas. Buses in NY are emblazoned with the phrase: "Why believe in God, just be good for goodness sake!"

While Christmas is celebrated by Christians and secular non-believers alike, the word "Christmas" literally means, "Christ's Mass" and is the celebration of the birth of Jesus of Nazareth. The date of December 25th, is not believed to be the actual birth date of Jesus, and it is likely this is a 'paganization' of the celebration, combining the tradition with the celebration of Winter Solstice.

It is interesting the Atheists focus on the date of Christian celebration of the birth of the Messiah, to promote their alternative philosophy. It would seem, one of the other 364 days of the year, would be more respectful and understanding of their fellow man, and would better exemplify "goodness" in their hearts. But this leads us to the point of the thread, and the discussion at hand.

How can one be "good for goodness sake" alone? Without a moral foundation for "goodness" what does it mean? What is the fundamental purpose of "being good" if there is no consequence for not "being good" and nothing to clarify or define what "goodness" is? What possible motivation could one have, for exhibiting "goodness" when there is no accountability or consequences? And where is "goodness" universally defined by Atheists? Isn't it in fact, a largely individual philosophy and standard?

I catch a lot of flack here as a "right-wing religious zealot" but my personal faith is not Christianity, I am a Spiritualist. I believe there was a man born in Nazareth named Jesus, and he was a great and profound speaker and philosopher, who had a deep and powerful message for humanity. I respect what he taught, because I believe it has merit in terms of living a "good" life. That said, I personally believe in a Spiritual entity not defined by Christianity or any other organized religious belief. What I believe in, is more like an "energy source" or "power" which courses through our universe. Those who believe in this entity are able to sometimes 'tap in' to the force, and gain wisdom and understanding of the universe around them. In any event, I base "goodness" on what is in harmony with my Spiritual understanding of "good" versus "evil" and nothing more.

Although I am not a Christian, I celebrate Christmas with my family and loved ones, some of whom are Christians, and I respect their beliefs and customs. I would certainly never use the day of their celebration for the birth of Jesus, as a platform for my personal beliefs. It's because I respect what they believe in their hearts, just as strongly as what I believe in mine. But, an Atheist has no beliefs. Therefore, they can't comprehend or understand what is in the hearts of others, nor can they bring themselves to respect it.

Be good for goodness sake? It's a nice thought, but wholly unrealistic in fundamental principle.

I take exception with the last sentence. An athist can have beliefs, just not in God. An athist can belive, for example, that one should be good for goodness sake. An athist can understand and comprehend what is in the hart of another, just like a Budhist can comprehend and understand what is in the hart of a Jew. And Athist CERTANTLY can respect others belifes. What a prejudice and hostile statement.

 

[uscitizen]

Most of us seem to need the fear of eternal torment to help us be good.

 

[Jarod]

I think the militant athiests and evangelicals are equally ridiculous. I agree with you there.

Agreed, they are merely opposit sides of the same coin.

 

[DigitalDave]

In what is becoming a holiday tradition, the Atheists are running a God-bashing billboard campaign for Christmas. Buses in NY are emblazoned with the phrase: "Why believe in God, just be good for goodness sake!"

While Christmas is celebrated by Christians and secular non-believers alike, the word "Christmas" literally means, "Christ's Mass" and is the celebration of the birth of Jesus of Nazareth. The date of December 25th, is not believed to be the actual birth date of Jesus, and it is likely this is a 'paganization' of the celebration, combining the tradition with the celebration of Winter Solstice.

It is interesting the Atheists focus on the date of Christian celebration of the birth of the Messiah, to promote their alternative philosophy. It would seem, one of the other 364 days of the year, would be more respectful and understanding of their fellow man, and would better exemplify "goodness" in their hearts. But this leads us to the point of the thread, and the discussion at hand.

How can one be "good for goodness sake" alone? Without a moral foundation for "goodness" what does it mean? What is the fundamental purpose of "being good" if there is no consequence for not "being good" and nothing to clarify or define what "goodness" is? What possible motivation could one have, for exhibiting "goodness" when there is no accountability or consequences? And where is "goodness" universally defined by Atheists? Isn't it in fact, a largely individual philosophy and standard?

I catch a lot of flack here as a "right-wing religious zealot" but my personal faith is not Christianity, I am a Spiritualist. I believe there was a man born in Nazareth named Jesus, and he was a great and profound speaker and philosopher, who had a deep and powerful message for humanity. I respect what he taught, because I believe it has merit in terms of living a "good" life. That said, I personally believe in a Spiritual entity not defined by Christianity or any other organized religious belief. What I believe in, is more like an "energy source" or "power" which courses through our universe. Those who believe in this entity are able to sometimes 'tap in' to the force, and gain wisdom and understanding of the universe around them. In any event, I base "goodness" on what is in harmony with my Spiritual understanding of "good" versus "evil" and nothing more.

Although I am not a Christian, I celebrate Christmas with my family and loved ones, some of whom are Christians, and I respect their beliefs and customs. I would certainly never use the day of their celebration for the birth of Jesus, as a platform for my personal beliefs. It's because I respect what they believe in their hearts, just as strongly as what I believe in mine. But, an Atheist has no beliefs. Therefore, they can't comprehend or understand what is in the hearts of others, nor can they bring themselves to respect it.

Be good for goodness sake? It's a nice thought, but wholly unrealistic in fundamental principle.

Dixie, you're great with words, but suck at logic. I sometimes wonder if you purposely say things just to try and piss people off and lure them into a long-winded debate about something, that goes on for pages and pages of posts, just to try and make something incredibly stupid sound reasonable. It is not reasonable to think that someone without a God can not be good for the sake of it. We don't need a cattle prod pokin' us in the ass to hold the door for a fellow human being, or drop a couple dollars into a red bucket, or want to donate a few hundred dollars to the Cysitc Fibrosis foundation to try and help find a cure for those that can't live a full life because they were born with a disease. It doesn't take a book to teach us warmth and compassion for other human beings, we just feel it. It may be hard for you to comprehend, but then again, maybe you needed a book and lots of words to teach you how to feel.

 

[Blackflag]

I don't murder, steal, rape, etc. because I believe it is wrong, harmful to society, and gross.

Dixie and many of the jesus freaks don't murder, steal, rape because they think something bad will happen to them if they do. Also when they fuck their altar boys and what not they are forgiven lol.

 

[KingCondanomation]

I suppose what I never understand in this, is those who can't stand people who are religious and telling them to be good, whom they call preachy. But a lot of those same people have no problem with government FORCING you to be good and REALLY punishing you if you are not.
I'm talking more about the atheist Liberals here.

 

[Blackflag]

I suppose what I never understand in this, is those who can't stand people who are religious and telling them to be good, whom they call preachy. But a lot of those same people have no problem with government FORCING you to be good and REALLY punishing you if you are not.
I'm talking more about the atheist Liberals here.

yeah cuz child molesting, rape, and murder shouldn't be illegal. Those are stupid pinko liberal ideas.

 

[Cancel3]

I suppose what I never understand in this, is those who can't stand people who are religious and telling them to be good, whom they call preachy. But a lot of those same people have no problem with government FORCING you to be good and REALLY punishing you if you are not.
I'm talking more about the atheist Liberals here.

I have no problem with society having rules. It allows us to protect the weak from the bullies.

 

[Bonestorm]

I don't murder, steal, rape, etc. because I believe it is wrong, harmful to society, and gross.

Dixie and many of the jesus freaks don't murder, steal, rape because they think something bad will happen to them if they do. Also when they fuck their altar boys and what not they are forgiven lol.

Basically.

And I'm generally not otherwise an asshole because going through life as an asshole isn't very pleasant.

 

[KingCondanomation]

yeah cuz child molesting, rape, and murder shouldn't be illegal. Those are stupid pinko liberal ideas.

I think when most people hear "be good for goodness sakes" at Christmas, they take it to mean to behave well and be nice and charitable, etc...
Not crazy shit you wouldn't do any time of the year.

I'm sorry if I offended your Liberals flag, I know you have some bizarre desire to defend them that you need to resolve. Here, this can be your New Years resolution mantra for next year:
"I am a Conservative and I don't need to defend Liberals"
Keep repeating it.

So any chance of snow in Phoenix this Christmas? I know there's been some snow in unusual places this year with the unusual bitter cold from all that global warming.

 

[Jarod]

I don't murder, steal, rape, etc. because I believe it is wrong, harmful to society, and gross.

Dixie and many of the jesus freaks don't murder, steal, rape because they think something bad will happen to them if they do. Also when they fuck their altar boys and what not they are forgiven lol.

I dont murder steal rape ect, because I would not enjoy doing such a thing and because I know if I did it would ruin my life because of the guilt I would feel. I have never had the desire to murder anyone, I rarely have ever wished to steal something and rape would not be enjoyable for me. I could not live with myself if I did such a thing.

 

[Blackflag]

I think when most people hear "be good for goodness sakes" at Christmas, they take it to mean to behave well and be nice and charitable, etc...
Not crazy shit you wouldn't do any time of the year.

I'm sorry if I offended your Liberals flag, I know you have some bizarre desire to defend them that you need to resolve. Here, this can be your New Years resolution mantra for next year:
"I am a Conservative and I don't need to defend Liberals"
Keep repeating it.

So any chance of snow in Phoenix this Christmas? I know there's been some snow in unusual places this year with the unusual bitter cold from all that global warming.

Why wouldn't I defend my own?

but nah I don't think we'll see snow. We've had it before but it has never stuck.

 

[Cancel3]

I have been thinking about this for a long time. The problems I have with christianity stem from their being two types of christians (at least in my experience).

I was raised by christian parents. I went to church every sunday. We read the bible as part of our xmas celebrations. But never did I experience the hatred, venom, and cruelty that some christians think is part of their faith.


My mother could have been the inspiration for Julia Sugarbaker on Designing Women. She was the epitome of the southern lady. She could be tough, but she was never rude. Her faith was as strong as any I have ever seen. But she did not judge others. That was the exclusive realm of God.

But then I grow up and see these haters screaming about sodomites, queers, and the rest of their nonsense. They keep talking about who will burn in hell. They use the pulpit as a political tool.

That is very different from the faith I was raised with.


As I said before, there are two distinct and very different types of christian.

The ones I respect are those like Mom. They use their faith as a bullwark for their life and a way of helping the world. It is what keeps those folks standing outside freezing their asses off ringing the bell in the hopes of change to help the poor. It is what inspired my son to skip the typical spring break frolicking and took him to Mexico to help an impoverished village rebuild their school & church. It is what leads people to load trucks with supplies before Katrina had even stopped, and be the first people on the ground to fed and clothe the victims of the storm.

The "true christians" (if there is such a thing) are the ones you see feeding the hungry. They man the lines at the soup kitchens and shelters all across the world. They quietly go about building homes for those who have none. They open their hearts, their wallets, and their homes to those in need. They share their faith and their belief by living as an example.





And then there are the other ones. The televangelists spreading hate and fear, and demanding donations. They feed their congregations lies and selected scriptures in order to control them and grow their sphere of influence.

They insist they are trying to help when they rail against homosexuality, pornography, and sins of the flesh. But they walk by hungry people every day and ignore them. They think their job is to judge people, and do more harm than good by passing on the hatred. This sort of xtian has been responsible for the crusades, the witch trials, the burning of crosses by the KKK, and the worst atrocities known to man. I don't think those at the top actually believe in anything but their own power, but the masses willingly follow them. These are the people who insist that the biblical way is the only way, and try to threaten and bully people into accepting it.




I do not, as I have been accused, hate religious people. But I do hate the sort of people who use their faith as a weapon of hate.

 

[Cancel3]

I think when most people hear "be good for goodness sakes" at Christmas, they take it to mean to behave well and be nice and charitable, etc...
Not crazy shit you wouldn't do any time of the year.

I'm sorry if I offended your Liberals flag, I know you have some bizarre desire to defend them that you need to resolve. Here, this can be your New Years resolution mantra for next year:
"I am a Conservative and I don't need to defend Liberals"
Keep repeating it.

So any chance of snow in Phoenix this Christmas? I know there's been some snow in unusual places this year with the unusual bitter cold from all that global warming.

If you think the responses in this thread are based on some bizarre need to defend then I think you missed the point.

The initial post was an attack on anyone who believed that morality and "goodness" can be based on anything except the threat of hell or the promise of heaven.

I, and many others, know this to be untrue. And we spoke up to show it to be untrue. Letting lies perpetuate lies is not the way good people operate.