Long-Term in Iraq

[Cancel3]

Dixie, I don't like or dislike you. I don't know you.

I only know your posts. I disagree with them. I have certainly made my points far more than I have insulted you (if I have insulted you at all).

I simply asked a question.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

This thread was originally about the Iraq in the long term.

Dixie, exactly why did all those soldiers die? What reasons can you give to their parents and spouses? WMDs? To bring democracy to a horrible dictatorship? 9/11/01?

I honor the men and women who served and still serve. Its the pompous assholes who sent them that I hold such in contempt.

Well, first of all, they were all willing to volunteer to serve their country and they all realized it was a risk to their life to join the military. We don't have a draft, and essentially anyone who has signed up for the military since 9/11, knew full well what the risk would be, and were willing to take it.

Specific reasons they died will vary, but the vast majority of them died because some terrorist from Iran set a roadside bomb or IED to explode, and they happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Again, they understood this risk when they signed up.

The Purpose? Well, that is a different question. If the Obama crowd has their way, the purpose will have been for absolutely nothing. I find it hard to believe any parent or loved one of a soldier who died in this war, would want it to have been for absolutely nothing. I think most of them would rather it have been for a worthwhile cause. Granted, you are going to try your damnedest to make sure that doesn't happen, but that's okay, you have that right because of their sacrifice.

 

[Cancel7]

OMG, they let your biased ass work in the media? Well, that shouldn't surprise anyone, given the liberal bias these days.

So... you know Cyndi and this Carlos guy, and that's it? What kind of leading liberal anti-war Katie Courick questions did you bombard the grieving father with? "Tell me, Mr. Arredondo, how does it feel to know you could have talked your son out of enlisting?" ..."Mr. Arredondo, did your son's plans include going off to die in Iraq?" ..."Mr. Arredondo, do you regret not being anti-war now?"

Yeah, I am sure you can prey on some poor distraught and grieving parent, and lead them to say all sorts of things you can twist and weave into another anti-war Bush-bashing piece for your liberal rag... but, you don't speak for the troops, and neither does Mr. Arredondo.

No, they don't let it in the main stream media, just liberal news sites online, and left wing websites.

Do you think that you speak for the troops? Can you give any examples of who you believe does "speak for the troops"? Do you believe "the troops" are a monolithic entity, speaking with one voice through some particular person?

 

[Cancel7]

Well, first of all, they were all willing to volunteer to serve their country and they all realized it was a risk to their life to join the military. We don't have a draft, and essentially anyone who has signed up for the military since 9/11, knew full well what the risk would be, and were willing to take it.

Specific reasons they died will vary, but the vast majority of them died because some terrorist from Iran set a roadside bomb or IED to explode, and they happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Again, they understood this risk when they signed up.

The Purpose? Well, that is a different question. If the Obama crowd has their way, the purpose will have been for absolutely nothing. I find it hard to believe any parent or loved one of a soldier who died in this war, would want it to have been for absolutely nothing. I think most of them would rather it have been for a worthwhile cause. Granted, you are going to try your damnedest to make sure that doesn't happen, but that's okay, you have that right because of their sacrifice.

You are aware that many were in the service before 911 aren't you?

You make your specious claim of what "The Purpose" of their deaths would be if the Obama crowd got their way, but completely side-step what the purpose of their deaths would be if you got your way.

 

[Cancel7]

Well, you certainly never have to worry about being wrong or agreeing with anyone if all you do is hurl insults and smart-ass retorts. That's pretty damn easy to do, I bet a trained monkey could probably manage to do it. I just wondered, because that's all I ever see from most of you, and it just seems like such a big waste of time. What is it you hope to accomplish by insulting me over and over? What is the purpose of spending the majority of your day here, only to dole out a few smart-ass one-liners? I mean, do you feel better for it or something? Does it make your liberal heart bleed to think you told me off for the ten thousandth time or called me a Bush-boot-licker for the millionth time?

Because, unless you are getting something out of it, unless it is bringing you some fundamental satisfaction I am not aware of, it really isn't doing you much good. Most of the people here have made up their mind if they like me or not, and I don't really care if they like me or not, so it's not like this consistent pattern of attack is doing anything in that regard. If it's doing something for you, I completely understand, and you just keep on posting your empty superficial remarks to everything I post. Oh, and if you by chance think it bothers me or frustrates me in some way, it really doesn't. In fact, I kind of get a kick out of the fact you are left with nothing to say except something personally attacking me. The ones who frustrate me, are people like Waterhead and KingRaw, who just goes on and on with ignorant and idiotic points I feel compelled to respond to. Petty little 6th-grade name calling doesn't bother me in the least.

You use more words to say less than anyone here. This post is meaningless.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Do you think that you speak for the troops? Can you give any examples of who you believe does "speak for the troops"? Do you believe "the troops" are a monolithic entity, speaking with one voice through some particular person?

Right now? That would be General Petraus. If you want some indicator of how most troops feel, you need to look at the 2004 presidential results from military ballots, I think it is overwhelmingly clear who they supported. Personally, I have 4 very close relatives serving there, and they tell me their sentiments all the time, I also have countless friends who are serving, and they tell me the same thing. NONE of them are anti-war liberals, imagine that?

You are aware that many were in the service before 911 aren't you?

Yes I am, but 9/11 was 7 years ago, and terms of enlistment run for 4 years, so anyone who was in the service before 9/11, who doesn't agree with our direction or the war, could have gotten out long ago. Those who remained, and those who have re-enlisted in record numbers since 9/11, do not share your viewpoint.

You make your specious claim of what "The Purpose" of their deaths would be if the Obama crowd got their way, but completely side-step what the purpose of their deaths would be if you got your way.

Well that's because it goes without saying, the opposite of "no purpose" is "some purpose". If I give you a choice to die for "no purpose" or die for "some purpose" which would you choose? I think the vast and overwhelming majority of people would say, if they had to die, they would rather it be for "some purpose." Most soldiers would likely say, if they had to die in a war, they would rather it be a war we won than a war we lost. The Pinheaded notion that our military is filled with these anti-war fools, outraged over the war and wanting it to just be over, is patently ridiculous.

The Obama/Pinhead/Anti-War Plan, has us essentially abandoning 50 million Iraqi people who have put their faith and trust in us to see this through to the end. Abandoning our partners in the UN and the coalition. Abandoning the cause that 5000 American service men and women have given their lives for already, and thousands of others have suffered great personal loss and made great personal sacrifice to accomplish. Your plan, your idea, will make it all for nothing.

Remaining strong and focused on our objectives in Iraq, and keeping a vigilant military presence there and elsewhere in the region, will ultimately result in a fundamental change. Democratizing Iraq can have tremendous positive consequences for the region. It is one of the most 'resource-rich' areas of the middle east, and the people of Iraq have proven to be some of the smartest people on the planet. Most importantly, American success in Iraq means alQaeda failure in Iraq. That alone, should be all the motivation needed to see it through. For whatever reason, you morons think if we abandon Iraq, alQaeda is just going to shrug their shoulders and say 'oh well'. It will be the most monumental victory alQaeda has ever had, if we leave Iraq. The recruitment to their movement, the support for their insanity, will skyrocket in the wake of US departure from Iraq. The few Muslim allies we have in the region will instantly be converted to enemies of the US. And eventually...sooner or later.... US service men and women will be called to duty again, in some other obscure place, to battle these very same radical Islamic terror elements, and give their lives in even greater numbers.

 

[uscitizen]

The Obama/Pinhead/Anti-War Plan, has us essentially abandoning 50 million Iraqi people who have put their faith and trust in us to see this through to the end. Abandoning our partners in the UN and the coalition. Abandoning the cause that 5000 American service men and women have given their lives for already, and thousands of others have suffered great personal loss and made great personal sacrifice to accomplish. Your plan, your idea, will make it all for nothing.

//

It was all for nothing Chief pinhead.

 

[Onceler]

Okay, and now for some news from Planet Earth:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/26/AR2006092601721.html

http://ivaw.org/

 

[Cancel7]

Dixe I don't have time to read your psychotic shit now - didn't anyone ever tell you never use 30 words when two will suffice? - I'm going to see a movie about the pinhead's mecca.

I'll look at your ramblings in the morning. Unless I'm dead, which, now I know what the bright side to that will be.

 

[Bonestorm]

Double-Down Dixie! It's easy to double down when you're playing with house money or other people's lives.

Read up on sunk costs and get back to me.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Dixe I don't have time to read your psychotic shit now - didn't anyone ever tell you never use 30 words when two will suffice? - I'm going to see a movie about the pinhead's mecca.

I'll look at your ramblings in the morning. Unless I'm dead, which, now I know what the bright side to that will be.

Well there is nothing psychotic about truth and facts. I am not being delusional like you are, I am being very pragmatic and evaluating the logic in a very real way. Nothing I have said is without merit, and the fact you can't respond is evidence of that.

I have found that using many words is sometimes better here, since so many pinheads have reading comprehension problems and often misconstrue what I have said. In breaking it all down into the most simplistic terms and to convey my true intended meaning, it is necessary to use many words. I realize pinheads don't normally communicate this way, after all, they have fewer words and just assign meaning to them as needed, but I've not yet mastered the language.

 

[Onceler]

"I am not being delusional like you are"

But you ARE, Dixie. The thing about delusional people is, they don't really know they're being delusional.

I tried to help; I posted some very factual information for you. You said, "The Obama/Pinhead/Anti-War Plan, has us essentially abandoning 50 million Iraqi people who have put their faith and trust in us to see this through to the end," and I showed you one of a few polls that have been taken, showing that a large majority of Iraqis want us to leave...IMMEDIATELY.

Your monolithic view of the troops is absurd on its face, but - also in an attempt to help - I posted a website just one of several organizations that are dedicated to stopping the war, and consist of Iraq veterans themselves. I could also post polls of the troops showing fatigue, disillusionment & a tremendous amount of depression.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

The Obama/Pinhead/Anti-War Plan, has us essentially abandoning 50 million Iraqi people who have put their faith and trust in us to see this through to the end. Abandoning our partners in the UN and the coalition. Abandoning the cause that 5000 American service men and women have given their lives for already, and thousands of others have suffered great personal loss and made great personal sacrifice to accomplish. Your plan, your idea, will make it all for nothing.

//

It was all for nothing Chief pinhead.

See, this is why I say you are all living in a fantasy world. You are speaking of Iraq in the past-tense, as if it has already been determined by history, when indeed, it has not been.

I know that you want to make "Bush's War" all for nothing, you are trying your best to do this, even by suspending reality and living in the future. But history takes a long time to play out, and we must wait to objectively evaluate the results of something, especially something that hasn't been completed and hasn't happened yet. I know that is a tough concept for someone who is split from reality as you seem to be, but try hard!

Every report coming out of Iraq indicates progress is being made, yet all we continue to hear from pinheads is defeatist doom and gloom, bitter personal attacks, and complete denial of reality. Every indicator of the situation in Iraq is positive, and looking better by the day, yet we still hear this silly 'battle cry' from the left to surrender and give up! The constitutionally democratic government of Iraq has been re-affirmed by the people of Iraq several times now, and the former tyrant dictator has been tried and executed, and still we hear the left clamor for us to 'give up, it's hopeless!' Osama Bin Laden has publicly declared Iraq the Central Front in the Jihad against America, and all we hear from the left is how we need to bring the troops home NOW! Gas is $5 a gallon with our "friends" selling us oil, and the left wants to turn it all over to our enemies!

You people can make fun of me all you like, you are about as backwardly-ignorant as any redneck ever dared to be. At least most of them live in reality.

 

[Bonestorm]

See, this is why I say you are all living in a fantasy world. You are speaking of Iraq in the past-tense, as if it has already been determined by history, when indeed, it has not been.

I know that you want to make "Bush's War" all for nothing, you are trying your best to do this, even by suspending reality and living in the future. But history takes a long time to play out, and we must wait to objectively evaluate the results of something, especially something that hasn't been completed and hasn't happened yet. I know that is a tough concept for someone who is split from reality as you seem to be, but try hard!

Every report coming out of Iraq indicates progress is being made, yet all we continue to hear from pinheads is defeatist doom and gloom, bitter personal attacks, and complete denial of reality. Every indicator of the situation in Iraq is positive, and looking better by the day, yet we still hear this silly 'battle cry' from the left to surrender and give up! The constitutionally democratic government of Iraq has been re-affirmed by the people of Iraq several times now, and the former tyrant dictator has been tried and executed, and still we hear the left clamor for us to 'give up, it's hopeless!' Osama Bin Laden has publicly declared Iraq the Central Front in the Jihad against America, and all we hear from the left is how we need to bring the troops home NOW! Gas is $5 a gallon with our "friends" selling us oil, and the left wants to turn it all over to our enemies!

You people can make fun of me all you like, you are about as backwardly-ignorant as any redneck ever dared to be. At least most of them live in reality.

1. If we left tomorrow, Al Qaeda would have less of the chance establishing itself in Iraq than it does today. The Iraqi Sunnis don't really like Al Qaeda at all except for the fact that Al Qaeda fights the United States. If we left, Al Qaeda's support among the Sunnis would be completely eviscerated. The Anbar Awakening (*gasp* negotiating with terrorists) has been successful.

2. Al Qaeda has an extremely minor presence in Iraq. If you really cared about battling Al Qaeda you would focus on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border region where Al Qaeda has fully redeveloped its homeland strike capacity and where the largest threat from Al Qaeda is based.

3. Progress towards what? How many benchmarks have been met? When are the Iraqis going to provide their own security? When can we leave? In short, what is the end-game?

 

[Onceler]

Here are some interesting quotes from Bush himself, in 1999, regarding Kosovo:

“Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is.”

“I think it’s also important for the president to lay out a timetable as to how long they will be involved and when they will be withdrawn.”

Of course, here was his stance as of '05:

“It doesn’t make any sense to have a timetable. You know, if you give a timetable, you’re — you’re conceding too much to the enemy.”


What a principled man...

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

"I am not being delusional like you are"

But you ARE, Dixie. The thing about delusional people is, they don't really know they're being delusional.

I tried to help; I posted some very factual information for you. You said, "The Obama/Pinhead/Anti-War Plan, has us essentially abandoning 50 million Iraqi people who have put their faith and trust in us to see this through to the end," and I showed you one of a few polls that have been taken, showing that a large majority of Iraqis want us to leave...IMMEDIATELY.

Your monolithic view of the troops is absurd on its face, but - also in an attempt to help - I posted a website just one of several organizations that are dedicated to stopping the war, and consist of Iraq veterans themselves. I could also post polls of the troops showing fatigue, disillusionment & a tremendous amount of depression.

What you posted was more of your typical left-wing propaganda, and you fully expect people to accept it as credible because you are a left-wing hack. Your liberal buddies are going to dig up every single instance of 'fatigue and depression' and exploit it for your cause. You will knowingly and willingly use unauthorized photos of soldiers who disagree with your view, and portray them as being supportive of your views. You will prey on the grieving families to foster this myth you think you have created, and most of us just think it is disgusting.

I have no "monolithic" view of American service personnel, they are all individuals who speak for themselves. I am interjecting a bit of logic and reasoning here, nothing more. It seems to me, if someone finds themselves serving voluntarily in the military, fighting the war in Iraq, seven years after 9/11, that they just probably agree with the mission, purpose, and objective of the war. It also seems to me, that in all of the service men and women I have spoken with, probably 200~300 in total, not a single one has expressed your anti-war view in any way, shape, or form. In fact, it's just the opposite. That's certainly no 'scientific' poll, but you would think if the number of 'anti-war vets' were so high, there would at least be one or two out of 200. Now, I don't know how to explain that... maybe the 'anti-war pinhead vets' were all on extended duty in Amsterdam or on leave in Bangkok? Maybe they were stationed in Dubai, and hanging out with Micheal Jackson and the Prince, having sex with little boys? I don't know where all of these supposed 'anti-war vets' are, but they aren't serving in Iraq or Afghanistan.

 

[Onceler]

"It also seems to me, that in all of the service men and women I have spoken with, probably 200~300 in total, not a single one has expressed your anti-war view in any way, shape, or form. "

You asked each one of them point blank what they thought of the war?

I've met & heard plenty of vets who oppose it, and want us out now. The military has even admitted that they have never seen such a high rate of depression & hopelessness among the ranks, even in a war zone.

You're really on a different planet; most Iraqi's want us to leave, most troops want out of there, and most Americans want the war to end. You always discredit polls when they don't support you, and trumpet them when they do. The fact is, polls tend to be very accurate ways of measuring sentiment; much more accurate than "I've talked to 300 soldiers, and they all come right out & tell me they love the war!"

Such a fool; you're really the worst of this whole rightie lot on here...

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

1. If we left tomorrow, Al Qaeda would have less of the chance establishing itself in Iraq than it does today. The Iraqi Sunnis don't really like Al Qaeda at all except for the fact that Al Qaeda fights the United States. If we left, Al Qaeda's support among the Sunnis would be completely eviscerated. The Anbar Awakening (*gasp* negotiating with terrorists) has been successful.

2. Al Qaeda has an extremely minor presence in Iraq. If you really cared about battling Al Qaeda you would focus on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border region where Al Qaeda has fully redeveloped its homeland strike capacity and where the largest threat from Al Qaeda is based.

3. Progress towards what? How many benchmarks have been met? When are the Iraqis going to provide their own security? When can we leave? In short, what is the end-game?

1. This is your OPINION made on a variety of ASSUMPTIONS. Let's not confuse this with FACT!

2. OBL said Iraq was the "CENTRAL FRONT" not me! If you would like to argue with OBL about it, that is entirely up to you, I take HIS word for this.

3. Progress toward establishment of the first Democracy in that part of the world. Where THE PEOPLE have control of their destiny, not some tyrant dictator or terrorist organization. Iraqi's are providing most, if not all, of their own security, but there are many outside enemies who are stronger and better equipped and trained than they are at this point, and they need our help. We can leave when we have achieved our objectives and Iraq is secure from the threats of outside forces. As long as they think there is a chance we may give up and come home, they will remain a threat. So, you answer that question, when will you people stop trying to prevent us from finishing the job and let us defeat them?

End game? I would say the ultimate 'end-game' is to defeat alQaeda terrorism and the ideology which comes with it, the mentality that brought alQaeda to us. This means a fundamental change in how people think in that region, and it isn't something that is going to happen overnight, or in a few years. It will take generations to develop this cultural change, but if it works, and there is no reason to believe democracy will fail, it will change the entire situation in the Middle East. Perhaps it will eventually lead to lasting peace over there, and the age-old problem will be resolved. Democracy is the ideological solution, just as military might is the military solution. Defeating the ideology of terror is not an easy task, and it is quite ambitious, but it is better than the plan of burying your head in the sand and ignoring the problem for another decade.

 

[Bonestorm]

1. This is your OPINION made on a variety of ASSUMPTIONS. Let's not confuse this with FACT!

2. OBL said Iraq was the "CENTRAL FRONT" not me! If you would like to argue with OBL about it, that is entirely up to you, I take HIS word for this.

3. Progress toward establishment of the first Democracy in that part of the world. Where THE PEOPLE have control of their destiny, not some tyrant dictator or terrorist organization. Iraqi's are providing most, if not all, of their own security, but there are many outside enemies who are stronger and better equipped and trained than they are at this point, and they need our help. We can leave when we have achieved our objectives and Iraq is secure from the threats of outside forces. As long as they think there is a chance we may give up and come home, they will remain a threat. So, you answer that question, when will you people stop trying to prevent us from finishing the job and let us defeat them?

End game? I would say the ultimate 'end-game' is to defeat alQaeda terrorism and the ideology which comes with it, the mentality that brought alQaeda to us. This means a fundamental change in how people think in that region, and it isn't something that is going to happen overnight, or in a few years. It will take generations to develop this cultural change, but if it works, and there is no reason to believe democracy will fail, it will change the entire situation in the Middle East. Perhaps it will eventually lead to lasting peace over there, and the age-old problem will be resolved. Democracy is the ideological solution, just as military might is the military solution. Defeating the ideology of terror is not an easy task, and it is quite ambitious, but it is better than the plan of burying your head in the sand and ignoring the problem for another decade.

1. Yeah, but my opinion is based on valid assumptions based in reality whereas your opinion is based on, well, bullshit.

2. Why in the hell would it make any sense whatsoever to take OBL's word on anything? Are we to take our policy objectives from what OBL says? Or should we listen to our intelligence experts and foreign policy professionals (such as Ambassador Crocker) regarding where the true threat from Al Qaeda lies? I know, it's really crazy shit.

3. OK, so you have no end-game. You have endless war and foreign military commitments. Thanks for that.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

1. Yeah, but my opinion is based on valid assumptions based in reality whereas your opinion is based on, well, bullshit.

Your assumptions are not based in reality, we've already established that.

2. Why in the hell would it make any sense whatsoever to take OBL's word on anything? Are we to take our policy objectives from what OBL says? Or should we listen to our intelligence experts and foreign policy professionals (such as Ambassador Crocker) regarding where the true threat from Al Qaeda lies? I know, it's really crazy shit.

I don't know... OBL said he was determined to strike in the US and he did, our intelligence said Saddam had WMD's and he didn't. Seems to me, it might be wise to listen to OBL when he declares Iraq the central front.

3. OK, so you have no end-game. You have endless war and foreign military commitments. Thanks for that.

Well, take a look at the world around you... we are committed militarily around the globe already. And it is endless, because we are the leading world superpower and no one else can do what we can. I know you people take this for granted, you just think it's always going to be like it is, and it has always been that way, but we have made great sacrifices in world history for you to live the lives you enjoy today.