You had no argument. Just your opinion that some supernatural being created us to prevent evil. Holy shit! Do you see how ridiculous it is that you would consider that some sort of "logical argument"? Laughable
Maher calls out Trumpkin evangelicals for what they are: Shameless hypocrites
- Thread starter Bill
- Start date
You had no argument. Just your opinion that some supernatural being created us to prevent evil. Holy shit! Do you see how ridiculous it is that you would consider that some sort of "logical argument"? Laughable
Billy Batts
Verified User
Sorry Atheist:
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
I find it amusing that you can't even recognize a logical argument....perhaps if you ever go to school you could get your teacher to explain it to you.....perhaps Epicurus could have explained it to you.....if he hadn't died centuries ago in a barbaric, uneducated civilization.......
My point is, dunce, that there IS free will. That's because there is no omniscient super being in the sky that knows all and sees all. YOUR free will claim is a copout to justify why your god is feckless against evil.
A logical argument with the main premise of a supernatural being. Just fucking priceless!
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
and yet you cannot deny that your "logical" argument against free will because of an omniscient God fails the litmus test.....it shows no evidence of rationality....
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
as opposed to your opinion that we cannot have free will if there is an omniscient deity?......I've proven your opinion is not only falsifiable, but false.....can you make the same showing?.......
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
I see that you are not able to identify a premise within a logical argument.....what other failings do you have that disqualify you to participate in this argument?.....
in my argument the existence of a supernatural being is irrelevant to the argument......the premise is the definition of the word "omniscient"......it does NOT mean "cause of future events"....it means "knowledge of future events".....
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
refute my argument......or to save time, admit you can't......
Failure again, pally boy. I never said "cause". Knowledge of future events means they are predetermined. So much for free will.
If your god knows evil will occur and does not prevent it, theirs goes your omnibenevolence or omnipotence or both. Epicurus and I just kicked your ass.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
as I have already pointed out there is no reason to claim that knowledge of future events predetermines them......those who act, freely, are not aware of the nature of that knowledge.......thus it cannot possibly influence the choice to act........refute my argument......or to save time, admit you can't......
Thanks for acknowledging your feckless deity.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
I take it that was your admission.......since it certainly wasn't refutation......my advice?......stick to topics you know something about......if you want to argue religion with me, cut and paste isn't going to do it.....I've already dealt with everything out there you can paste.....
The mistake from atheism is apparent.....its assumption, that they know the mind of God. Its a mistake of great proportions to assume that when God uses the term "ALL" that it includes the impossible or impractical. God declares, "All things are lawful for Me, but not all things are helpful...all things are possible for me, but....not all things edify." -- 1 Cor. 10:23
The errant assumption being that because God did not chose to do things the way this person claims GOD SHOULD DO IT....example: Stop all evil, because He don't means He can't, reward all righteousness, He don't means He can't.
In this case you have an atheist arguing that because FREE WILL EXISTS (obviously as he is freely posting on this political board) God somehow is limited in His Omniscience and Omnipotence...and therefore is neither. So the only way for God to be both...is to remove FREE WILL from the equation....so no one can chose to do evil. If He does not...the evil is the fault of God. What the assumption fails to comprehend is that God USES evil as well as good to produce the final end result that He has predetermined. He does not accomplish this by magically seeing into a future that is yet to exist....He does this through manipulating the reality of this realm...TODAY...as He has planned in the past...when the appropriate time comes...that being a time of His choosing.
Another errant assumption being is to make the false claim that "ALL KNOWING" includes that which cannot be known...i.e., the freewill actions and thoughts of men. Take the Biblical example of such in proving that freewill exists and God cannot know what can't be known. Abraham, Until father Abraham made his choice to actually follow through with the sacrifice of his son...that choice was unknown by God. The exact words as recorded, God said, "Do not lay your hands on the lad....FOR NOW I KNOW THAT YOU FEAR GOD......" -- Genesis 22:18 Until Abraham made the choice, God did not know that which could not be known. Just like God can't look into a future that has not yet happened.....but God explains just how He PREDETERMINES that which He wants to occur...and its not by prognosticating any future event that can't possibly exist yet.
Its a simple thing as to how God defines His omnipotence, "Remember the former things of old (the past), For I am God; there is no other; I am God there is none like Me. Declaring the end from the beginning (the beginning of time to the end of time is His to manipulate as He will when He will)....from ancient times (things that have been done) ....to things that are not yet done. Saying My council will stand (His advise will stand defying anyone...who will stop the God of Creation?).....and I will do My pleasure;
....Calling a bird of prey (a symbolism, not a real animal but a warring kingdom) from the east, this man who executes My Council (note: there are no prerequisites....this man can be evil or good...either way He will be manipulated into doing the will of God)...from a far country.
Indeed....I have spoken it (proclaimed in prophecy)....I will bring it to pass (at a time in the future when He sees fit to make it happen)...I have purposed it...I will (future tense) also do it.
God plans it in the past...waits for the appropriate time...then executes that which He has predetermined to bring about. Who is going to stop this God of Creation, the atheist who could not stop God from appointing Mr. Trump?
Hopefully...half of this post will not be magically "edited" away as it was last time.
The errant assumption being that because God did not chose to do things the way this person claims GOD SHOULD DO IT....example: Stop all evil, because He don't means He can't, reward all righteousness, He don't means He can't.
In this case you have an atheist arguing that because FREE WILL EXISTS (obviously as he is freely posting on this political board) God somehow is limited in His Omniscience and Omnipotence...and therefore is neither. So the only way for God to be both...is to remove FREE WILL from the equation....so no one can chose to do evil. If He does not...the evil is the fault of God. What the assumption fails to comprehend is that God USES evil as well as good to produce the final end result that He has predetermined. He does not accomplish this by magically seeing into a future that is yet to exist....He does this through manipulating the reality of this realm...TODAY...as He has planned in the past...when the appropriate time comes...that being a time of His choosing.
Another errant assumption being is to make the false claim that "ALL KNOWING" includes that which cannot be known...i.e., the freewill actions and thoughts of men. Take the Biblical example of such in proving that freewill exists and God cannot know what can't be known. Abraham, Until father Abraham made his choice to actually follow through with the sacrifice of his son...that choice was unknown by God. The exact words as recorded, God said, "Do not lay your hands on the lad....FOR NOW I KNOW THAT YOU FEAR GOD......" -- Genesis 22:18 Until Abraham made the choice, God did not know that which could not be known. Just like God can't look into a future that has not yet happened.....but God explains just how He PREDETERMINES that which He wants to occur...and its not by prognosticating any future event that can't possibly exist yet.
Its a simple thing as to how God defines His omnipotence, "Remember the former things of old (the past), For I am God; there is no other; I am God there is none like Me. Declaring the end from the beginning (the beginning of time to the end of time is His to manipulate as He will when He will)....from ancient times (things that have been done) ....to things that are not yet done. Saying My council will stand (His advise will stand defying anyone...who will stop the God of Creation?).....and I will do My pleasure;
....Calling a bird of prey (a symbolism, not a real animal but a warring kingdom) from the east, this man who executes My Council (note: there are no prerequisites....this man can be evil or good...either way He will be manipulated into doing the will of God)...from a far country.
Indeed....I have spoken it (proclaimed in prophecy)....I will bring it to pass (at a time in the future when He sees fit to make it happen)...I have purposed it...I will (future tense) also do it.
God plans it in the past...waits for the appropriate time...then executes that which He has predetermined to bring about. Who is going to stop this God of Creation, the atheist who could not stop God from appointing Mr. Trump?
Hopefully...half of this post will not be magically "edited" away as it was last time.
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The mistake from atheism is apparent.....its assumption, that they know the mind of God. Its a mistake of great proportions to assume that when God uses the term "ALL" that it includes the impossible or impractical. God declares, "All things are lawful for Me, but not all things are helpful...all things are possible for me, but....not all things edify." -- 1 Cor. 10:23
The errant assumption being that because God did not chose to do things the way this person claims GOD SHOULD DO IT....example: Stop all evil, because He don't means He can't, reward all righteousness, He don't means He can't.
In this case you have an atheist arguing that because FREE WILL EXISTS (obviously as he is freely posting on this political board) God somehow is limited in His Omniscience and Omnipotence...and therefore is neither. So the only way for God to be both...is to remove FREE WILL from the equation....so no one can chose to do evil. If He does not...the evil is the fault of God. What the assumption fails to comprehend is that God USES evil as well as good to produce the final end result that He has predetermined. He does not accomplish this by magically seeing into a future that is yet to exist....He does this through manipulating the reality of this realm...TODAY...as He has planned in the past...when the appropriate time comes...that being a time of His choosing.
Another errant assumption being is to make the false claim that "ALL KNOWING" includes that which cannot be known...i.e., the freewill actions and thoughts of men. Take the Biblical example of such in proving that freewill exists and God cannot know what can't be known. Abraham, Until father Abraham made his choice to actually follow through with the sacrifice of his son...that choice was unknown by God. The exact words as recorded, God said, "Do not lay your hands on the lad....FOR NOW I KNOW THAT YOU FEAR GOD......" -- Genesis 22:18 Until Abraham made the choice, God did not know that which could not be known. Just like God can't look into a future that has not yet happened.....but God explains just how He PREDETERMINES that which He wants to occur...and its not by prognosticating any future event that can't possibly exist yet.
Its a simple thing as to how God defines His omnipotence, "Remember the former things of old (the past), For I am God; there is no other; I am God there is none like Me. Declaring the end from the beginning (the beginning of time to the end of time is His to manipulate as He will when He will)....from ancient times (things that have been done) ....to things that are not yet done. Saying My council will stand (His advise will stand defying anyone...who will stop the God of Creation?).....and I will do My pleasure;
....Calling a bird of prey (a symbolism, not a real animal but a warring kingdom) from the east, this man who executes My Council (note: there are no prerequisites....this man can be evil or good...either way He will be manipulated into doing the will of God)...from a far country.
Indeed....I have spoken it (proclaimed in prophecy)....I will bring it to pass (at a time in the future when He sees fit to make it happen)...I have purposed it...I will (future tense) also do it.
God plans it in the past...waits for the appropriate time...then executes that which He has predetermined to bring about. Who is going to stop this God of Creation, the atheist who could not stop God from appointing Mr. Trump?
Hopefully...half of this post will not be magically "edited" away as it was last time.
Atheists claim to know the word of God? Lol. Are you fucking kidding? The irony is thick and a delusional asswipe like you can't even recognize it.
"The Bible is the word of God"
"How can you be sure it's the word of God?"
"Because the Bible tells us so"
"Why believe the Bible?
"The Bible is infallible"
"How do you know it's infallible?"...
(Return to top)
IN FACT: Atheists "claim" to know everything in the universe...if they did not they could not prove the non-existence of deity. The illogical negative that accompanies the lack of logic in all atheistic conclusions. You first claim that God does not exist. Yet you can't prove that negative...because you don't know everything in the universe...you just act like you do. The first notable illogical thing? The term Atheist. Against theism. Question? How can you be against something that is not real? You are stating that you are against theism..that which you claim through a negative claim don't exist. Laughable.
Its a simple thing to "know" the word of God is the word of God, it comes from the evidence contained in both History Actual and Applied Science such as Archaeology. First of all The Bible Claims that it is the only true word of God. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God....." -- 2 Tim 3:16
That Greek word for "inspiration" (as the New Testament was drafted in Greek) is found no where else in scripture...it is the term "theonpneustos"....it is literally translated into, God Breathed.
Thus...the Bible says/claims that is not a product of man, but a product of God's inspiration. Does that alone make it so? Of course not....God directs every man every where to place His Word to the test.
Consider all the prophecies of the Old Testament that come to pass just as foretold by the inspiration of God. Then consider all the things that supposed modern science says could not possibly be true. But each and every time....The Bible is proven to be on the side of truth when actual evidence comes to the light of being tested by the objectivity of Science.
Examples. Take Genesis 40. How Joseph interpreted the dream of the Pharaoh's servant (his butler). In his dreams grapes are mentioned. But according to the ancient historian Herodotus....declares that the Egyptians grew no grapes nor drank any wine. Many of the modern pseudo (fake) scientists....declare that the Bible was clearly wrong...lies. etc.,
Later Archaeology found drawings and paintings on ancient Egyptian tombs.....proving Herodotus wrong...these paintings clearly show the Egyptians growing, cultivating and processing the extracted juices of the grapes....as well as scenes of Drunkenness. The Bible was Correct...the pseudos WRONG.
Eyewitness testimony -- 1 Peter 3:16
Science
History
Reason
Logic
All confirm the Bible as being the Word of God. Its simple.
What I find amusing...is the logic or lack thereof of all atheists...or supposed atheists. How can you be against something you supposedly don't believe or accept as reality? Atheism....Against Theism. You can not prove that God does not exist...yet you are against that which you are incapable of proving. You claim that God cannot be Omnipotent nor Omniscient....in order to prove that you yourself would have to be omniscient and know all there is to know in the universe....if there is just one thing that you don't know...that one thing could in theory prove the existence of some deity...that which you are against but don't believe really exists.
I think its more than amusing watching you supposed atheist (against theism) reason in circles....attempting to prove one thing by claiming the first thing you claimed as truth...without ever proving the first thing. Its called circular logic. Popcorn?
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What a willfully ignorant dumbshit. Atheists claim to know everything? Who in the fuck brainwashes you with that kind of feces?
Pal, you wouldn't know circular logic if it kicked you in the ass. I've provided the classic example of circular logic to you several times and you fail to recognize it. You return to your own circularity with every post and don't even realize it.
Did I claim to be against anything, simpleton? I'm merely pointing out the absurdity of your claims. Science proving the word of god? Pffft! You don't know shit about science. Reason and logic? Priceless!
Brainwashed?....."YOU" have just spent countless posts attempting to convince me that God does not exist....even though you are incapable of proving that negative. You are presenting yourself as an Atheist....someone that claims that he does not believe in something that does not exist....an oxymoron to begin with. The logical question then asks: "Why must you declare that you don't believe in something....that you are AGAINST that don't even exist according to you? Atheist...Latin for being against theism. Theism: the doctrine of belief in the existence of God. You are against that BELIEF....self professed. Demonstrating that your opinion is not based upon factual reality as there is no method known to man nor science to prove a negative belief....you are against a BELEIF. Nope...nothing fascist about that whatsoever....
You claim you know there is no God...yet you can't prove that claim through the scientific method of presenting objective, testable, repeatable, consistent evidences. I say...."I believe" there is a God and the Bible is the word of God based upon both prima facie and objective testable evidences found in science and history that demonstrates the Bible to be a record/history of the Judeo/Christian philosophy based upon demonstrable truths...where testable by science or religion.
What's wrong with this picture? You claim to be the enlightened free thinker basing your personal life upon science.....and you charge that its I that believes in magic...yet its I that bases a circumstantial truth beyond the reason for me to doubt otherwise upon science and history actual. Funny indeed.
I simply profess to accepting the World of God as truth....not based upon a mere belief as you would propagate in error....but because I am advised in that very Doctrine to .....test all things, to see if its from God. -- 1 John 4:1 Test the Bible for Truth where its testable by science and history. Read the Bible and understand it, God wants all men to know the will of God, and the only way to know that will is not through some magic fairy tale, but through the revelations found in the Holy Scriptures...that were tested and found not lacking in any truth (were they can be tested).
And what is revealed from the God of Creation in the word..i.e, the Holy Scriptures? The Bible tells us that God has a plan in place for man's salvation through the birth, life, death and resurrection of Christ Jesus....this plan has been in place before time itself began (1 Peter 1:20, 2 Tim. 1:9).
The Bible tells us that this plan was hidden from mankind for awhile (Eph. 3:5, 6)...and hidden even from the prophets who foretold of the Christ coming (1 Peter 1:10-12). We are further told just how this plan was to be revealed at the proper time....one of God's choosing.....through the divinely inspired words that were to come directly to certain chosen men (Apostles of Christ) through the Holy Spirit of God (Eph. 3:5, Peter 1:12)
We are further told that when we read those revealed things....we can understand them (Eph. 3:4). Not only can we understand them....we are told that we must understand the will of God through these inspired words (Eph. 5:17)
My advise to any so called atheist attempting to prove a negative? If God desires that we come to the knowledge of the truth....IT IS POSSIBLE....that's why He commands that we understand His will.....again if God commands it...IT IS POSSIBLE....but...its impossible to understand anything if you first don't even have enough respect to attempt to read it before you condemn it.
As I said...I find all atheists amusing people as they profess not to believe in something that don't exist by their own logic or lack thereof. Reason and logic demonstrates that if nothing exists before...nothing is all that's ever going to exist. Why rail against that you cannot disprove.....a negative. Would it not be better to simply ignore that which you claim never existed...instead of saying that you are against NOTHING and you attempt to prove that nothing exists through negativism..and impossible task for someone that claims to be a pragmatic realist? LMAO
Conclusion based upon the prima facie evidences provided by your own words? Me thinks that you profess to not believing nor accepting God....because if you did you'd have to face the reality there are many absolute moral laws that find you lacking. You don't want to believe in God because....you fear the judgment that comes with that acceptance. You convince yourself that you are your own judge. What you really fear is the thought that you would have to repent or change your lifestyle...that is nothing but a false hope to begin with...something that's like a morning mist..gone in the blink of an eye....then, whether you believe or not there will be an accounting for your everlasting energy that is your soul....that which brings animation to nothing but a few simple organic compounds...a force that is incapable of being duplicated by man or science...LIFE itself.
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