Michigan Democratic Primary Rules-Certified Vote Changed
- Thread starter Care4all
- Start date
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
I've long ago concluded that you aren't interested in democratic victory in November, nor are you interested in "votes counting", facts. or evidence .. you have yet to address one single question asked of you.
In the interest of not seeming offensive or "sexist" to you, I've pretty much avoided posting to you. I tried this time hoping to come to some civil balance, but that is entirely impossible as you continue to post unfounded and frankly, kind of silly comments that have already been proven false.
I prefer to agree to disagree with you and leave it at that.
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The Almighty
Clearly your rose tinted glasses are what is confusing you. Yes, the Clintons were likely to find a way to continue the extension of her campaign. But that does not mean the DNC had to hand them an issue on a silver platter... which they clearly did. (though again, those rose tinted glasses may make it difficult for an Obama worshipper to see)
No, the DNC did not handle that the best way they could. As you and others have stated, this is over. MI delegates are not going to make things break for Hillary. All the DNC had to do was say... ok, Hillary gets the number of delegates based on those that voted for her. As for the uncommitted, they could have gone one of two ways... make them unpledged, which would leave it in the hands of the delegates. Or they could have said, Obama gets 80-90% of uncommitted and Hillary remaining.
Bottom line, they could have given Obama 50% of the uncomitted and it would not have made a difference in his winning the nomination. Yet, they toss out the vote... and yes, it was real no matter how much the kool-aid producers tell you it wasn't... and use an EXIT POLL to tell voters what they really meant.
They handed her a nice gift wrapped opportunity to make this an issue that Hillary supporters could argue.... legitimately. Because only an Obama worshipper would think that the DNC handled this well.
If you think Michigan isn't going to be a swing state this year, then you are in for a rude awakening. Especially if this move by the DNC has a lingering effect on Hillary supporters to the point that they stay home or even more drastically vote for McCain.
Yes, your party is moving away from Clinton control. So? That doesn't mean they aren't screwing the pooch in their handling of the breakup. There are amicable breakups and hostile breakups. Which leads you to question... why are they shooting for a hostile one? (and yes, Clintons are not making it easy, but the DNC should be careful before pissing off the followers of the one Dem family to have actually resided in the White House since Carter)
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The Almighty
You should attempt to re-read the thread without the Obama glasses on. Take a look at how many lefties have completely avoided addressing Care's points on the DNC charter, on the tossing out the vote, etc....
Yourself included.
I've long ago concluded that you aren't interested in democratic victory in November, nor are you interested in "votes counting", facts. or evidence .. you have yet to address one single question asked of you.
Which questions? I will try to look back through all of the posts to see what I missed, but you have to realize it is me ALONE, on serval threads on this board, (and another) that I am having to address and answer multiple posters on all of these different threads regarding this subject.
Honestly, BAC, no disrespect was intended by me for not answering some of your questions, i actually thought i was doing a pretty good job of it...
In the interest of not seeming offensive or "sexist" to you, I've pretty much avoided posting to you. I tried this time hoping to come to some civil balance, but that is entirely impossible as you continue to post unfounded and frankly, kind of silly comments that have already been proven false.
Such as? please be specific, and I will try to more clear than I have been and break it down even further, if what I have said has been misunderstood or not clear)
I prefer to agree to disagree with you and leave it at that.
I can do that also, agree to disagree...UNTIL someone starts bashing Hillary for something that is clearly not true, then expect me to get the boxer gloves on...
Or try to mess with my vote or any citizen's vote cast....forget the gloves--- and below the belt is permitted!!!
If Hillary truely messes up, then go for the jugular....you won't hear a peep out of me, I will be joining in with you....
Care
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thought I do some research and see all that is in the DNC Charter and here is how it begins....and truely deserves a separate thread, discussing the duties and requirements of politically private parties and how their Charters have been intertwined with our government and our constitution.... and who REALLY can be disenfranchised and by whom....
But anyway, as I read their Preamble of their Charter, their Constitution...I believe in all that it says.
The Question is, does the DNC Chairman, and the DNC Rules and bylaws committee BELIEVE in their own CHARTER is truely up for discussion imo!
But anyway, as I read their Preamble of their Charter, their Constitution...I believe in all that it says.
The Question is, does the DNC Chairman, and the DNC Rules and bylaws committee BELIEVE in their own CHARTER is truely up for discussion imo!
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The Almighty
A very valid point. Thanks for contributing.
That was Damo's most poignant post to date. Truly riveting.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
Just for you my brother .. althouigh I probably need a cross or some silver bullets to bring you back from the dark side.
Election 2008: Michigan Democratic Presidential Primary
Michigan: Clinton 41% Obama 41%
March 7, 2008
If Democrats hold a second Presidential Primary in Michigan, the race could be one of the most competitive all year. The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey finds that Hillary Clinton would attract 41% of the Primary Vote while Barack Obama would earn an identical 41%.
Clinton leads by seven among women and trails by eight among men. Clinton does better with low-income voters and Obama does better among upper-income voters. Obama leads among voters under 50 while Clinton leads among older voters.
Among Michigan’s Likely Primary Voters, Clinton is viewed favorably by 60%. Obama earns positive reviews from 67%.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...2008_michigan_democratic_presidential_primary
Obama had the votes to split the Michigan delegates evenly. To suggest that he deserved no votes is mind-boggling stupid .. but that was the Clinton position .. and ANYTHING LESS would have, as you say, handed them an issue .. INCLUDING YOUR PROPOSAL TO GIVE OBAMA ONLY 50% OF WHAT HE GOT,
nuff said about your seriously flawed and confusing position.
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The Almighty
Seriously man, take off the glasses, rid yourself of the koolaid. It may help with your comprehension abilities.
Where did I suggest that CURRENT polling would not be more favorable to Obama?
Where did I suggest that he shouldn't get any delegates?
Either learn to comprehend what you read or cease with the bullshit above. Because the combination is making you appear foolish.
Here's Our Preamble for the....
Democratic Party of the United States
We the Democrats of the United States of America, united in common purpose, hereby rededicate ourselves to the principles which have historically sustained our party.
Recognizing that the vitality of the Nation's political institutions has been the foundation of its enduring strength, we acknowledge that a political party that wishes to lead MUST LISTEN TO THOSE IT WOULD LEAD, a party who asks for the people's trust, must prove that it TRUSTS THE PEOPLE and a party which hopes to call forth the best the Nation can achieve must embody the best of the Nation's heritage and traditions.
What we seek for our Nation, we hope for all people:
-individual freedom in the framework of a just society
-political freedom in the framework of meaningful participation BY ALL CITIZENS.
-Bounded by the United States Constitution
-Aware that a party must be responsive to be WORTHY of responsibility.
We Pledge ourselves to open, honest endeavor and to the conduct of public affairs, in a manner worthy of asociety of free people.
Under God, and for these ends and upon these principles, we do establish the Democratic Party of the United States of America.
----------------------------
Sorry if there was any typos, I had to type it myself, I could not or did not know how to copy it from a pdf file...
Care
Democratic Party of the United States
We the Democrats of the United States of America, united in common purpose, hereby rededicate ourselves to the principles which have historically sustained our party.
Recognizing that the vitality of the Nation's political institutions has been the foundation of its enduring strength, we acknowledge that a political party that wishes to lead MUST LISTEN TO THOSE IT WOULD LEAD, a party who asks for the people's trust, must prove that it TRUSTS THE PEOPLE and a party which hopes to call forth the best the Nation can achieve must embody the best of the Nation's heritage and traditions.
What we seek for our Nation, we hope for all people:
-individual freedom in the framework of a just society
-political freedom in the framework of meaningful participation BY ALL CITIZENS.
-Bounded by the United States Constitution
-Aware that a party must be responsive to be WORTHY of responsibility.
We Pledge ourselves to open, honest endeavor and to the conduct of public affairs, in a manner worthy of asociety of free people.
Under God, and for these ends and upon these principles, we do establish the Democratic Party of the United States of America.
----------------------------
Sorry if there was any typos, I had to type it myself, I could not or did not know how to copy it from a pdf file...
Care
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
Yeah they did change the rules in the middle of the game.
They allowed those delegates to be seated.
Now next election, we'll have 50 states hold their primary on Jan. 3rd, because there's no punishment for doing so.
They allowed those delegates to be seated.
Now next election, we'll have 50 states hold their primary on Jan. 3rd, because there's no punishment for doing so.
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The Almighty
And how does your ignorant comment fit in the Democratic Party's Preamble?
NOT at all....
The Democratic party vows and takes a pledge to listen to the people, respond to the people...yahdeedah....
They did NOT listen to Florida and Michigan and their concerns that they needed to be early, nor did they abide by the Constitution of the United states by disenfranchising two separate states of their delegates to be seated at the convention meant for THEM to choose the nominee for President?
I'll wait for your response smarty pants....
Care
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
And how does your ignorant comment fit in the Democratic Party's Preamble?
NOT at all....
The Democratic party vows and takes a pledge to listen to the people, respond to the people...yahdeedah....
They did NOT listen to Florida and Michigan and their concerns that they needed to be early, nor did they abide by the Constitution of the United states by disenfranchising two separate states of their delegates to be seated at the convention meant for THEM to choose the nominee for President?
I'll wait for your response smarty pants....
Care
You never do get angry do you?
The Democratic party is a private organization. It can choose candidates in the way it wishes. It is not an arm of the government, so any primary it may hold with the mission of choosing a candidate does not have to include all voters in the state (very clear from the fact that Republicans can't vote). The only exception to this is that they can't discriminate based on race or religion and such if they do hold a primary.
Now, the Democratic party set out a set of clear rules. These rules must be abided by to get delegates from the selected units seated. Florida and Michigan voluntarily chose to disregard those rules. Even if the state forced the primary to be on a ridiculous date, they could've held a convention.
They chose not to seat their delegates, and they got them seated anyway. Have your pie and eat it to.
Maybe I should be able to send delegates to the Democratic convention also?
The ONLY metric for victory is the TOTAL Delegate count, and the clinton campaign HAS NEVER EVER SAID OTHERWISE.
However the Obamaites are spreading lies about what she says...
Just because she has won the popular vote in this contest and touts such, DOES NOT MEAN that she does not know that the pledged delegates along with the Superdelegates will be making the final decision....
And for Obama fans to be saying that she is changing the measures midstream, is another one of their OUTRIGHT LIES....and to tell ya the truth, I'm a little sick of their propaganda machine and their mindless supporters that do not THINK FOR THEMSELVES and just repeat the Mantra that they are TOLD to say.....sound familiar Onceler?
...and I am not pointing you or anyone specific out here....honestly as unfair i think the people here have been throughout this election with Clinton, this site has been VERY MILD compared to the others and gentler, kinder than others that i have been to...
Now to answer why the Popular vote is important for Hillary to tout, is because she is trying to win over the Super delegates that have not pledged, or that have pledged that were once hers that have changed their minds and gone to Obama a while back to now change their mid again and come back to her.
This is her last shot...Obama needs about 45 I think, delegates to go his way and Hillary needs about 150 delegates to go her way....
There are about 200 UNPLEDGED delegates left...out of about 4300 delegates, she would have to garner 75% to win, which is near impossible BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE.... this is why it has been wrong wrong wrong to have been calling for her to quit the last 5 months....
this is down to the wire...these unpledged delegates could have given obama their support a long time ago and ENDED THIS RACE, but they didn't...
well, now is the time for them to choose, though by the rules and bylaws they can change their mind all the way up to the Convention...
AND NOOOOOOOO, THIS IS NOT Hillary changing the rules midstream, these ARE THE RULES.
If the DNC had not made their ruling in the manner that they did and had not changed the rules and michigan's rules on how to handle uncommitted vote delegates,
then Obama would need about 100 delegates and Hillary would need about a hundered delegates....
IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A TIE....A fricking TIE, but all you hear in the news is why hasn't hillary quit, when will Hillary quit, Hillary is hirting the democratic party if she does not quit...
well you know what?
ALL of you saying this over and over again when this race has been soooooooo close ALL ALONG...***
YOU can kiss my grits!
Care
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Simply not true in its entirety.....go to the link I provided for the democratic party Charter
Who legally certifies the vote? Whose delegates go to the Convention? Who pays for the election or the Primary or the Caucus....?
Not the party?
Each State's
the tax payer....IT IS OUR PRIMARY ELECTION, NOT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY'S NOT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY'S, they don't own it, it is ours....they supply candidates, that's about it...
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