More 'Bush Cronies' in Obama Cabinet

Onceler said:
"Our policies and actions will not be much different"

Give me an f'in break. Our policies will be completely different; the Bush doctrine is DEAD. We're not going w/ the sledgehammer approach anymore.

We'll know in 3-4 months. At that time, you can come back and try to flail wildly as you "spin" how you were right once again, even though our foreign policy & actions against terror will bear no resemblence to the Bush admin whatsoever.
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Some will still claim so. As if, the United States of America were going to become a pacifist nation under any president. It's absurd, and I'm growing really tired of the faux moral superiority.

Amy Goodman once hosted a very absorbing debate among pacifist leftists, and they addressed just this. This was early on in the primary. And they laid out exactly who was advising whom, and both hillary and Obama raised flags. But, even Edwards did - he was still in at that time, this was very early. And I remember one of them saying, look, if you take apart their policies, an Edwards might save 20 thousand lives. But you can take that into consideration because 20 thousand lives isn't nothing. I will have to try and find it. It was a real debate, a real discussion, without any of this other bullshit.

and there was truth in it. America is never going to be a pacifist nation. It's the same old argument of, do you allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good? And I feel that when human lives are at stake, the answer is no.

But you keep reaching for the better, and you keep agitating for it. That's how I view it.
 
Darla said:
Some will still claim so. As if, the United States of America were going to become a pacifist nation under any president. It's absurd, and I'm growing really tired of the faux moral superiority.

Amy Goodman once hosted a very absorbing debate among pacifist leftists, and they addressed just this. This was early on in the primary. And they laid out exactly who was advising whom, and both hillary and Obama raised flags. But, even Edwards did - he was still in at that time, this was very early. And I remember one of them saying, look, if you take apart their policies, an Edwards might save 20 thousand lives. But you can take that into consideration because 20 thousand lives isn't nothing. I will have to try and find it. It was a real debate, a real discussion, without any of this other bullshit.

and there was truth in it. America is never going to be a pacifist nation. It's the same old argument of, do you allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good? And I feel that when human lives are at stake, the answer is no.

But you keep reaching for the better, and you keep agitating for it. That's how I view it.
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I wish I had seen that. It is SO RARE that you see or can engage in an actual honest discussion on this issue. This was even more true back when they voted on the resolution.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but I do expect Obama to focus much more on intel & cooperation w/ our allies to root out terrorism, as opposed to the heavy-handed, often counter-productive military approach. Dixie's repeated assertions that he'll be "just like Bush" are insane; BAC's conclusive verdict on his abandoning the anti-war crowd before he even serves a day are ridiculous.

We'll see. I will definitely be disappointed if we see a Bush kind of approach to any of our foreign policy problems, but I don't expect that at all. I think Obama will be the kind of President who will use the military as a last resort.
 
Darla said:
You know what's interesting to me?

How much you and bac sound alike. And how sure you both are that you are in the position to foresee future events, and evalute other people's thoughts, none of which you are even privy to.
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Yeah, you're probably right, I might be stretching it a bit to think Micheal Moore could ever do a real patriotic movie, he hates America too much. Point taken!
 
Onceler said:
"Our policies and actions will not be much different"

Give me an f'in break. Our policies will be completely different; the Bush doctrine is DEAD. We're not going w/ the sledgehammer approach anymore.

We'll know in 3-4 months. At that time, you can come back and try to flail wildly as you "spin" how you were right once again, even though our foreign policy & actions against terror will bear no resemblence to the Bush admin whatsoever.
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LOL... Well Onzies, I don't expect you to have the perspective that policies are the same, you are a koolaid-drenched liberal! From your perspective, it will all be totally different, although it will be essentially the same. Obama will be swinging the exact same sledgehammer, only you will see it as a tack hammer, skillfully used by a master craftsman. It's all in your perspective!

Let's say we are attacked again by terrorists from Yemen, and Obama has to invade that sovereign nation to take out the bad guys... you will be the first one here to defend his actions and juxtapose them with what Bush did! And it doesn't matter what Obama does, it will always be "Better Than Bush" from your perspective. He could invade Canada and steal all their oil, and you would say... well, it's better than Bush because it's cheaper to transport the stolen oil from Canada than Iraq! So, it really doesn't matter how much Obama's policies will mirror those of the Bush administration, what matters is your perspective is now different because your 'side' is in power.
 
Dixie said:
LOL... Well Onzies, I don't expect you to have the perspective that policies are the same, you are a koolaid-drenched liberal! From your perspective, it will all be totally different, although it will be essentially the same. Obama will be swinging the exact same sledgehammer, only you will see it as a tack hammer, skillfully used by a master craftsman. It's all in your perspective!

Let's say we are attacked again by terrorists from Yemen, and Obama has to invade that sovereign nation to take out the bad guys... you will be the first one here to defend his actions and juxtapose them with what Bush did! And it doesn't matter what Obama does, it will always be "Better Than Bush" from your perspective. He could invade Canada and steal all their oil, and you would say... well, it's better than Bush because it's cheaper to transport the stolen oil from Canada than Iraq! So, it really doesn't matter how much Obama's policies will mirror those of the Bush administration, what matters is your perspective is now different because your 'side' is in power.
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Like I said, we'll see, and you can run your scared little redneck arse away from these threads when we do. Truthfully, if he invaded a country that actually attacked us, that alone would be a monumental upgrade from Bush's policies.

I think you're going to be sorely disappointed though, hillbilly.

Oh, and it's a little ironic that you're calling me koolaid-drenched, when you openly admitted on another thread that you plan to bash Obama every single day no matter what he does. It doesn't get much more "hack" than that.
 
Darla said:
I know the right is rooting against him. It's why people like Damo and Annie and others love you now. They are very much hoping for a failed presidency, even at the cost of damage to their own country.

But as for me, I'll wait and see, and give it a chance. I certainly hope for the best. I always have, even when Bush took office, though I didn't have high hopes considering that I was in the unfortunate position of knowing his record and his ideology. But I waited.
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Classic projection, you want me to be like you so much you even believe that I "root against" somebody in the WH simply because they are on the "other team". You couldn't be more wrong.

I am most certainly not rooting against Obama. We are in far too frail of a period to root against any person in the White House, or even congress for that matter. Pointing out things I find problematic is not the same as "rooting against" anybody at all.

To give an analogy, if I started speaking of the Broncos (my team) and pointed out their weak defense, how they tend to overlook bad teams and play poorly because of it, or any other thing that may be said against them, I would not be rooting against them, in fact quite the opposite. An apologist would get mad at me for pointing out these places where they could improve, saying that I wasn't a "real fan". (This Analogy would be a good example of what I think BAC is going through).

To be fair, for me it is like watching the Packers, who I really don't particularly like or dislike, and pointing out their weaknesses while the True Believers would inform me that I was "rooting against them". However, their QB is on my fantasy team and I would rather he do well. Because if he does well, I stand to benefit.

BAC, as I stated above, is like me speaking about the Broncos. I hope they'll do well every time they take the field, yet I can still realistically know they aren't going to win any Superbowl this year, and are definitely in the weakest division, if they were in any other division they wouldn't even be in the hunt. That doesn't mean I "root against them" any more than I hope that Obama does poorly. I don't. My team is the USA, and I hope we do well all the time, even when Obama is President. (Just like I rooted for the broncos when Wade Phillips was the unfortunate "Head Coach" of the Broncos.)
 
Damocles said:
Classic projection, you want me to be like you so much you even believe that I "root against" somebody in the WH simply because they are on the "other team". You couldn't be more wrong.

I am most certainly not rooting against Obama. We are in far too frail of a period to root against any person in the White House, or even congress for that matter. Pointing out things I find problematic is not the same as "rooting against" anybody at all.

To give an analogy, if I started speaking of the Broncos (my team) and pointed out their weak defense, how they tend to overlook bad teams and play poorly because of it, or any other thing that may be said against them, I would not be rooting against them, in fact quite the opposite. An apologist would get mad at me for pointing out these places where they could improve, saying that I wasn't a "real fan". (This Analogy would be a good example of what I think BAC is going through).

To be fair, for me it is like watching the Packers, who I really don't particularly like or dislike, and pointing out their weaknesses while the True Believers would inform me that I was "rooting against them". However, their QB is on my fantasy team and I would rather he do well. Because if he does well, I stand to benefit.

BAC, as I stated above, is like me speaking about the Broncos. I hope they'll do well every time they take the field, yet I can still realistically know they aren't going to win any Superbowl this year, and are definitely in the weakest division, if they were in any other division they wouldn't even be in the hunt. That doesn't mean I "root against them" any more than I hope that Obama does poorly. I don't. My team is the USA, and I hope we do well all the time, even when Obama is President. (Just like I rooted for the broncos when Wade Phillips was the unfortunate "Head Coach" of the Broncos.)
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Damo, give it a rest. You didn't even know what projection was, until I diagnosed you with it. Now it's your favorite word.
 
Darla said:
Damo, give it a rest. You didn't even know what projection was, until I diagnosed you with it. Now it's your favorite word.
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I'd like to point out that the first person to use the word on this board in this particular manner was myself and it was towards you.

You tend to project this kind of thing onto me all the time.

Because if it were an R President you'd be rooting against him, thus I must also be doing that. Any mention of anything at all that may point out a weakness or a problem is "rooting against" somebody when your world is like that. Unfortunately you never take into account that people are not like you the vast majority of the time.

Again, my team is the USA, I hope they do well, even if Obama is the "Head Coach". I may think he's like Wade Phillips, but that doesn't change my desire that we win.
 
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