Most EVs Cost More to Drive Than Their Gas-Powered Rivals:

[Into Тhe Night]

Depends if you believe the doom and goom lies of the Democrats that do not happen

Oh, look. Another science denier who believes that Jesus is going to magically suck all of our CO2 emissions up his asshole.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

Like I said, you paid for your electricity up front. There's no real savings in that.

You said I couldn't break even.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

You said I couldn't break even.

It was a generalization. Most people don't. You barely do. That was my point. Solar isn't worth bothering with. It's like you pay a dollar to wander around for 20 years picking up a penny occasionally and at the end of 20 years you might have a dollar plus a few pennies to show for it.

It gets even worse when you scale it up to commercial levels. There it doesn't even become competitive.

 

[Into the Night]

No it's not. Hydrogen.

No...for the reasons I've already described to you. You are just chanting.

 

[Into the Night]

I was looking at them, I live in a house and don't really travel anywhere long distance so one would probably be perfect but they are far more expensive.

In my opinion if they want to push them, they meaning the government, they should lower the price by about 10k.

If they did that I'd have no problem buying one.

I recently purchased a solar powered generator for my sailboat so I'm all for alternative energy, if it is affordable.

So you support communism or fascism. Is that right? You have no problem with making other people pay for your car?
Government has no business dictating prices of cars. That fascism and price controls. They never work.

You might want to think more seriously about this.

 

[Into the Night]

Or, anhydrous ammonia...

Too dangerous and impractical, for the reasons I have already described to you.

 

[Into the Night]

And they should be subsidized, so therefore they are very competitive.

I already know you are a communist.

There is no denying that fossil fuels enjoy massive, MASSIVE subsidies year over year,

Fossils are not used as fuel. Fossils do not burn. There are no subsidies for coal, oil, or natural gas.

but they have decades of subsidies also built in to their legacy infrastructure.

What 'infrastructure'??? Buzzword fallacy.

What we should never do, is deny new and better technologies the same type of subsidies,

Using the wind for power is extremely old. It is not better. Neither is solar power. They are the most expensive and 2nd most expensive method of producing electric power in existence.

thus locking in older and worse technologies for decades beyond them being able to compete fairly,

Novelty fallacy. Just because something is old does not make it inferior.

as the old ones are the only ones enjoying subsidies.

Coal, oil, and natural gas are not subsidized.

That harms all of us.

Describe this 'harm'.

 

[Into the Night]

Why? Let them compete on a level playing field. If they can't compete, then too bad for them.

Agreed. Government has NO place manipulating energy markets.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

So you support communism or fascism. Is that right? You have no problem with making other people pay for your car?
Government has no business dictating prices of cars. That fascism and price controls. They never work.

You might want to think more seriously about this.

I believe every ideology has a place somewhere.

For instance, when we go into space and start colonizing planets it will most likely be under some sort of communist system.

Our military is essentially communism.

 

[Into the Night]

Depends, on my boat it was about 7000 dollars for the generator and installation, do you have any idea how much fuel costs?

Not having to run my fuel generator will save me a ton of money.

I did the math.

It also saves on maintenance costs.

$7000 for a generator?????!? For a boat that you are supplying electricity for using solar power????????????!?

 

[Into the Night]

Don't sailboats use wind power?

Yes, Sock. They do.

 

[Into the Night]

Not to run appliances.

You can run appliances with wind power on the same boat very easily.

 

[Into the Night]

Because the politicians are addicted to the quid pro quo of getting massive donations from O&G and Big Auto and other corporate interests and will NEVER stop giving away tax payer money to get money they can personally use. I mean who would not give away other peoples money (tax payers) to build up their own personal use accounts?


So understanding that unless you are naive enough to believe you can stop the above (Part A), you then have to realize the only way to level the playing field is to ALSO give the same benefit (subsidies) to Part B, the new technolgoies.


If you do not, then you risk being stuck forever in a cycle of old technology with few upgrades, as the old tech is the only one that has current revenues and subsidy cash to bribe the politicians.

No subsidies here, Q.

 

[Into the Night]

I always love your silly math that has nothing to do with reality.

Personal anecdote
My panels cost $22,000 installed which also included a new 200 amp service panel.
They produced an average of 8.4 mWh per year for the last 2 years.
At .1409 per kWh, the panels pay for themselves in a little over 18 years with no subsidies and no inflation
If we add in inflation at 2% per year to the electric cost the panels pay for themselves in 16 years.

You do know what "breaking even" means, don't you?

Those $22,000 panels are subsidized, Poorboy.
And they don't produce power at night.

 

[Into the Night]

EVs being more expensive to operate is entirely irrelevant
if in fact, it's now true that they're required for the environment.

Whether they are or not is one conversation,
but the cost of operation has nothing to do with it.

EVs use twice the fuel that gasoline cars do.

 

[Into the Night]

Like I said, you paid for your electricity up front. There's no real savings in that.

Those panels are subsidized as well, another point he conveniently forgot to mention. He is also, of course, ignoring damage to them (requiring replacement or major repair costs), due to dust, snow, wind, bugs, birds, hail, etc.
He is also conveniently ignoring the fact that these panels produce NOTHING at night.

 

[Into the Night]

Depends if you believe the doom and goom lies of the Democrats that do not happen

This Doom and Gloom has been preached by the Church of Green for many decades now.

 

[Into the Night]

If the LK-99 superconductor proves to be real, then this discussion will be pointless. We'll have practically unlimited energy.

A superconductor is not energy.

 

[Into the Night]

Oh, look. Another science denier who believes that Jesus is going to magically suck all of our CO2 emissions up his asshole.

It is YOU denying science.

No gas or vapor has the capability to create energy out of nothing. You are ignoring the 1st law of thermodynamics.
No gas or vapor has the capability to heat a warmer surface using a colder gas. You are ignoring the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
No gas or vapor has the capability to trap light. You are ignoring Planck's laws and the Stefan-Boltzmann law.

You cannot create energy out of nothing.
You cannot destroy energy into nothing.
You cannot trap heat.
You cannot trap light.
You cannot trap thermal energy. There is always heat.

CO2 is a naturally occurring gas that is absolutely essential for life to exist on Earth.

The Church of Global Warming routinely discards science and mathematics.

 

[Into the Night]

You said I couldn't break even.

You can't. Solar panels only produce power during the day. They are damaged by snow, rain, dust, hail, lightning, nearby trees (they drop sap, leaves, and possibly themselves onto the array!), critters (bugs, small and large mammals, snakes and other reptiles, birds, etc), and even possibly destroyed by a vehicle wrecking into it.

They are also subsidized.