It passed because more African Americans voted than ever before. It isn't hard to understand that while they vote Democratic almost invariably, they often do not support homosexual marriage. It's an anomaly.
MoveOn.org
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evince
Truthmatters
I think they were just being knee jerk conservatives who had to have one issue they could cling to so they didnt have to accept they were liberal converts.
cawacko
Well-known member
Blacks have voted Democratic over 90% as a group for how many years now? That's some serious denial if blacks don't believe they are liberal (voting wise). And there has long been anti-gay sentiments within the black community. Not something that gets talked about a lot in main stream America but its there. So its not like its a surprise or "knee jerk" response that blacks voted 70% for Prop 8.
And while Hispanics are don't vote as solid as a group as black folk they definitely lean Democratic. But Hispanics being more conservative on social issues is nothing new as well. They were the other 'group' to vote a majority yes on Prop 8.
So no real knee jerk behavior there.
I was thinking we should just out law marriage all together first.
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
Every conservative I've ever heard of has claimed their country is a conservative one. There are probably people in Sweden saying Sweden is a conservative country. It is nothing but a baseless attempt to stifle debate.
Epicurus
Reasonable
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2008/10/parsing_the_tracking_poll_are.html
The latest Washington Post/ABC News tracking poll -- using interviews conducted Thursday through Sunday -- shows Barack Obama leading John McCain 52 percent to 45 percent.
And yet, buried deep within the poll was evidence that if Obama is elected to the White House and Democrats strengthen their congressional majorities, they run some peril of pushing a too-liberal agenda and alienating the broad middle of the country -- many of whom still consider themselves moderates and conservatives.
In the Post survey, just 22 percent of the likely voter sample called themselves "liberals" while 38 percent self-identified as "moderates" and 37 percent as "conservatives."
Those numbers are essentially unchanged since the Post/ABC started nightly tracking in this race last weekend and are remarkably consistent over the last few years that the Post has asked the question.
On the cusp of the 2006 midterm elections, for example, when Democrats won back control of the House and Senate, an early November Post/ABC poll showed just 19 percent of the sample of registered voters described themselves as "liberals" while 42 percent called themselves "moderates" and another 36 percent cast themselves as "conservatives."
Those numbers got us to thinking about a wonderful piece by Newsweek's editor-in-chief (and Fix friend) Jon Meacham in which he argued that America remains a center-right country ideologically, and that a President Obama will have to cope with that reality if he wants to accomplish his legislative goals and get himself reelected.
Writes Meacham:
"Should Obama win, he will have to govern a nation that is more instinctively conservative than it is liberal--a perennial reality that past Democratic presidents have ignored at their peril. A party founded by Andrew Jackson on the principle that 'the majority is to govern' has long found itself flummoxed by the failure of that majority to see the virtues of the Democrats and the vices of the Republicans."
The latest Washington Post/ABC News tracking poll -- using interviews conducted Thursday through Sunday -- shows Barack Obama leading John McCain 52 percent to 45 percent.
And yet, buried deep within the poll was evidence that if Obama is elected to the White House and Democrats strengthen their congressional majorities, they run some peril of pushing a too-liberal agenda and alienating the broad middle of the country -- many of whom still consider themselves moderates and conservatives.
In the Post survey, just 22 percent of the likely voter sample called themselves "liberals" while 38 percent self-identified as "moderates" and 37 percent as "conservatives."
Those numbers are essentially unchanged since the Post/ABC started nightly tracking in this race last weekend and are remarkably consistent over the last few years that the Post has asked the question.
On the cusp of the 2006 midterm elections, for example, when Democrats won back control of the House and Senate, an early November Post/ABC poll showed just 19 percent of the sample of registered voters described themselves as "liberals" while 42 percent called themselves "moderates" and another 36 percent cast themselves as "conservatives."
Those numbers got us to thinking about a wonderful piece by Newsweek's editor-in-chief (and Fix friend) Jon Meacham in which he argued that America remains a center-right country ideologically, and that a President Obama will have to cope with that reality if he wants to accomplish his legislative goals and get himself reelected.
Writes Meacham:
"Should Obama win, he will have to govern a nation that is more instinctively conservative than it is liberal--a perennial reality that past Democratic presidents have ignored at their peril. A party founded by Andrew Jackson on the principle that 'the majority is to govern' has long found itself flummoxed by the failure of that majority to see the virtues of the Democrats and the vices of the Republicans."
Socrtease
Verified User
WHAT! You obviously don't make your money on that great american tradition called the divorce! Bite your tongue woman!
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
Blacks are populist, not really "liberal".
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
And how many of those "Moderates" support universal healthcare? Gay marriage?
A lot of them, because both are supported by a majority of Americans. You can refuse to call it liberalism if you want.
Epicurus
Reasonable
What people call themselves is irrelevant. Dixie claims to be a moderate. What are their positions on the issues? What types of policies do they support?
And Meacham is an idiot who couldn't find his ass with both hands in his back pockets.
Nice to you don't over generalize an entire race.
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
Go tell it to Caw.
Epicurus
Reasonable
That's not our argument, though Darla is trying to make it so.
Our argument is whether the country considers itself center right or not, which apparently they do.
Seriously ideologies aside, I don't understand why you guys are so invested in this. It's like denying the sky is blue. No political scientist seriously entertains the idea that this country is mostly self-identified liberals.
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
America is a liberal country, shitstain.
"No political scientist seriously entertains the idea that this country is mostly self-identified liberals. "
That's true, but Darla made a good point about how Americans are w/ specific issues - healthcare, for example. The idea of universal coverage is basically a centrist position at this point.
That's true, but Darla made a good point about how Americans are w/ specific issues - healthcare, for example. The idea of universal coverage is basically a centrist position at this point.
Epicurus
Reasonable
No actually it's not. As a libertarian I don't even care or have anything invested in this. It's just funny to watch the lengths you all will go to spin this.
Were 2000 and 2004 referendums on the failed policies of liberalism? lol.
Every 4 years ideologues get all worked up about this, but the academic polls of self-identification barely move.
Epicurus
Reasonable
No doubt I agree but like I said that wasn't my argument.
Absolutely there has been some movement on the issue polls.
I thought the issue was whether the country is in fact a center-right country, not whether Dixie claims to be a moderate.
Self-identification is irrelevant because there is no universal agreed upon definition of the terms "moderate," "liberal" or "conservative." What policy positions people support is the key metric and you cannot present evidence supporting the claim that on balance a majority of people are center-right.