Name An Obama Created Bill And It's Expense..

Ask any ER worker. They are flooded with people without insurance. People without insurance will claim it's something serious to get general care. Then guess who gets billed, the tax payer.


The average ER visit is $1300. The average Dr. Office visit is $300. You can do the math there.

I'm against Obama/RomneyCare. I believe the insurance cost problem could be solved through other ways. Painting me as a Liberal will only make YOU feel better.

Sorry, but the taxpayer certainly isn't who gets billed. You need to do some research on this, and you'll discover there are a variety of different types of hospital (ER), for one thing, and very few of them are owned by the taxpayer. There is no law on the books which obligates taxpayers to cover this bill. Guess who gets billed? How about NOBODY? And the hospital has to eat the cost, in most cases. That's one of the reasons an ER visit is so expensive. Now, certain types of hospitals, can go before the city council or county commission, and request financial help in covering indigent care costs, and this would mean that taxpayers are sometimes billed, but again, this is up to a council or commission to decide, and they are elected officials.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're not a liberal Obama supporter, and you aren't even a cheerleader for his ideas, you're just a normal guy trying to understand why people hate him so much, being he is such a harmless and lovable president, right! We gotchya!
 
Why do people get uncompensated care in the ER? Do you know?

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Most people aren't smart enough to bring up that case and I give you props for that. I have no doubt you will be smart enough to bring up the word "promote" next. But that is an entire different thread. [Should we Americans use our tax dollars to save lives in the ER?] It's a good thread and it will get broke down to "what if I just don't have my insurance proof".

The FACT is that is where the debate needs to be and has needed to be. But if this isn't questioned, Obamacare is a good thing for now. If we HAVE to cover them, we may as well do it cheaper and make them chip in assuming they have a job. (yes some poor people have jobs)
 
Sorry, but the taxpayer certainly isn't who gets billed. You need to do some research on this, and you'll discover there are a variety of different types of hospital (ER), for one thing, and very few of them are owned by the taxpayer. There is no law on the books which obligates taxpayers to cover this bill. Guess who gets billed? How about NOBODY? And the hospital has to eat the cost, in most cases. That's one of the reasons an ER visit is so expensive. Now, certain types of hospitals, can go before the city council or county commission, and request financial help in covering indigent care costs, and this would mean that taxpayers are sometimes billed, but again, this is up to a council or commission to decide, and they are elected officials.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're not a liberal Obama supporter, and you aren't even a cheerleader for his ideas, you're just a normal guy trying to understand why people hate him so much, being he is such a harmless and lovable president, right! We gotchya!

I've heard this argument, I'm glad you brought it up. I've been told by more reputable sources that the hospital applies to get that money back. But the fact is, it doesn't matter. If the hospital pays more guess who compensates for that my friend. The patients/insurance all money from you and I. For some reason I feel the need to explain this to you further, YOU PAY FOR IT EITHER WAY.
 
BTW, I've heard one other person, maybe it was you, accuse me of being a Legion guy. I am not Legion. I came here from PoliticalForums. I got banned there and made my nest here :)

you are too much like Legion to not be Legion.....no matter, even if you aren't, I'm adding you to my ignore list in your own right.......
 
you are too much like Legion to not be Legion.....no matter, even if you aren't, I'm adding you to my ignore list in your own right.......

No one is like me. If I repeated a few facts that are easy to research and they lined up with someone else it means he wasn't a sheep/parrot. I'm starting to like this Legion guys.
 
114 views and no actual new Obama expense has been presented yet. It will hopefully wake up the Right Wing a little bit.

Let me be the first to present one. UNEMPLOYMENT was extended. I don't know the cost because it's not on the web.

Unemployment needs to be policed more. TONS of people are manipulating the program. No one ever wants to police it though, they want more or none.
 
I've heard this argument, I'm glad you brought it up. I've been told by more reputable sources that the hospital applies to get that money back. But the fact is, it doesn't matter. If the hospital pays more guess who compensates for that my friend. The patients/insurance all money from you and I. For some reason I feel the need to explain this to you further, YOU PAY FOR IT EITHER WAY.

Well that's all philosophical and shit, but the fact is, the hospital pays for it. The only way I pay for it personally, is if I use the hospital. Now of course, Obamacare has changed this to the insurance carriers paying for it, but again, I only pay for it personally if I used the insurance... but guess what? The SCOTUS has ruled I can be forced to buy the insurance, so you are correct, we'll all pay for it now.. except those who can't afford the insurance, which will grow exponentially in number as costs skyrocket. I don't know what you do when you meet the logical ends here, when no one can afford to pay for it anymore... I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens? My guess is, you're going to have a crisis of finding people to work in the health care industry, and millions of people are going to see their once-available health care options vanish before their eyes. Hospitals are going to close down, doctors are going to take down their shingle, nurses and orderlies are going to find other fields of endeavor, and we can have all the "free" health care we want, IF we can find it!
 
114 views and no actual new Obama expense has been presented yet. It will hopefully wake up the Right Wing a little bit.

Let me be the first to present one. UNEMPLOYMENT was extended. I don't know the cost because it's not on the web.

Unemployment needs to be policed more. TONS of people are manipulating the program. No one ever wants to police it though, they want more or none.

Obama has been president for 4 years. In that time, he has submitted ONE budget to Congress, it didn't even garner a vote from a Democrat. During his 4 years, his Administration is responsible for an average spending of $1.6 trillion per year, more than what has been realized in revenues. He is directly responsible for nearly $6 trillion of our $16 trillion debt, because he has failed to submit a passable budget. During this same time, his administration has implemented numerous plans and ideas, like "Cash for Clunkers" which cost us billions of dollars, extending unemployment for up to 3 years now, hundreds of billions to companies like Solyndra, who simply took the money and ran, leaving nothing to show for our investment. Billions to pay off contributors, cronies, and union thugs, under the guise of "shovel ready jobs" which he later admitted, never really existed. And you are totally oblivious to all of this? You must live under a rock in Nancy Pelosi's back yard.
 
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Most people aren't smart enough to bring up that case and I give you props for that. I have no doubt you will be smart enough to bring up the word "promote" next. But that is an entire different thread. [Should we Americans use our tax dollars to save lives in the ER?] It's a good thread and it will get broke down to "what if I just don't have my insurance proof".

The FACT is that is where the debate needs to be and has needed to be. But if this isn't questioned, Obamacare is a good thing for now. If we HAVE to cover them, we may as well do it cheaper and make them chip in assuming they have a job. (yes some poor people have jobs)

You will notice the words "PROMOTE the GENERAL welfare." It is not the government's job to FUND the general welfare, or to PAY FOR the general welfare, or even to force US to pay for the general welfare. It is their job to PROMOTE this thing they call "general welfare." That would be, generally the things which are conducive to the welfare of all. I experience ZERO welfare from you getting proper medical care. It doesn't benefit me for you to be healthy, it doesn't harm me for you to die from being unhealthy.

The "general welfare" clause is certainly not intended to apply to health care, and has been grossly misinterpreted by liberals, according to the Federalist Papers, where the arguments can be found over what constitutes the "general welfare." Madison himself, says the "general welfare" clause can not be an open-ended endorsement for government to fund whatever it deems in the interest of the public, because this would create an unlimited power of federal government, and render the Constitution meaningless. It can ONLY apply to specific generalities outlined in the specific delegations of power to the federal government, and nothing else. We can't just willy-nilly dream up shit and claim it's for the "general welfare" and therefore, Congress has the power to do it! That was not the intent of this clause, according to the very people who wrote it.
 
Well that's all philosophical and shit, but the fact is, the hospital pays for it. The only way I pay for it personally, is if I use the hospital. Now of course, Obamacare has changed this to the insurance carriers paying for it, but again, I only pay for it personally if I used the insurance... but guess what? The SCOTUS has ruled I can be forced to buy the insurance, so you are correct, we'll all pay for it now.. except those who can't afford the insurance, which will grow exponentially in number as costs skyrocket. I don't know what you do when you meet the logical ends here, when no one can afford to pay for it anymore... I guess we'll have to wait and see what happens? My guess is, you're going to have a crisis of finding people to work in the health care industry, and millions of people are going to see their once-available health care options vanish before their eyes. Hospitals are going to close down, doctors are going to take down their shingle, nurses and orderlies are going to find other fields of endeavor, and we can have all the "free" health care we want, IF we can find it!

I'm philisophical? Thanks. I just thought I knew 1 + 1. Of course your perspective is the Libertarian "I have enough money I don't need insurance" perspective, and not saying you are Libertarded. :)

I said I don't support Obama/RomneyCare. You jumped in and assumed I did. I'm aware of the future of it. Though you are just repeating the things you have heard from the Right Wing and media. The biggest negative is that corporate America knows how to legally price gouge. It's why tweezers in a hospital cost around $15. But they will argue that it's because of lawsuits from the 1%er Lawyers.

I hope you learned something about Lawyers and the Free Market..........I doubt it
 
You will notice the words "PROMOTE the GENERAL welfare." It is not the government's job to FUND the general welfare, or to PAY FOR the general welfare, or even to force US to pay for the general welfare. It is their job to PROMOTE this thing they call "general welfare." That would be, generally the things which are conducive to the welfare of all. I experience ZERO welfare from you getting proper medical care. It doesn't benefit me for you to be healthy, it doesn't harm me for you to die from being unhealthy.

The "general welfare" clause is certainly not intended to apply to health care, and has been grossly misinterpreted by liberals, according to the Federalist Papers, where the arguments can be found over what constitutes the "general welfare." Madison himself, says the "general welfare" clause can not be an open-ended endorsement for government to fund whatever it deems in the interest of the public, because this would create an unlimited power of federal government, and render the Constitution meaningless. It can ONLY apply to specific generalities outlined in the specific delegations of power to the federal government, and nothing else. We can't just willy-nilly dream up shit and claim it's for the "general welfare" and therefore, Congress has the power to do it! That was not the intent of this clause, according to the very people who wrote it.

Again, you are a typical Right Winger who can't read. I don't support the AHA.

I support the Christian perspective of promoting general healthcare. PROMOTE the people not to drink large soda's, don't ban them. Head figures need to speak out playing a role model.

I'll just quit there, you jumped into the thread without reading it which I do as well. I just don't want to repeat myself because everyone in America knows "If you shine any light on the positive part of a bill, you are Liberal scum" Pathetic.
 
I'm philisophical? Thanks. I just thought I knew 1 + 1. Of course your perspective is the Libertarian "I have enough money I don't need insurance" perspective, and not saying you are Libertarded. :)

I said I don't support Obama/RomneyCare. You jumped in and assumed I did. I'm aware of the future of it. Though you are just repeating the things you have heard from the Right Wing and media. The biggest negative is that corporate America knows how to legally price gouge. It's why tweezers in a hospital cost around $15. But they will argue that it's because of lawsuits from the 1%er Lawyers.

I hope you learned something about Lawyers and the Free Market..........I doubt it

I don't listen to the media anymore. I read various opinions from numerous sources, and I may browse the MSM for details, but I don't depend on anyone to honestly give me the news anymore. Now what I don't read, is kook theory conspiratorial bullshit about the 1%ers and corporate American price gougers. Most of that is rooted in Marxist/Maoist Socialist propaganda, and nothing more. All the prices in hospitals can be directly traced to indigent care laws, which obligated the hospitals to handle emergency care for anyone who couldn't afford to pay. Because they have this burden (not the taxpayers) we have unusually higher prices as paying consumers of the hospital, that is called capitalism. We paying customers have to pay enough to offset the non-paying users of the system, and this is how that is done in a capitalist world.

Let's be clear on what I "assume about you" here... You are a liberal socialist who thinks he can fool people into believing he is independent and fair-minded. You will go out of your way to try and prove this, by repeatedly reassuring us that you "don't support" ACA, Obama, Liberals, Democrats...whatever. Thou dost protest too much, you are a liberal socialist who is trying to pull the wool over our eyes.

Again, you are a typical Right Winger who can't read. I don't support the AHA.

I support the Christian perspective of promoting general healthcare. PROMOTE the people not to drink large soda's, don't ban them. Head figures need to speak out playing a role model.

I'll just quit there, you jumped into the thread without reading it which I do as well. I just don't want to repeat myself because everyone in America knows "If you shine any light on the positive part of a bill, you are Liberal scum" Pathetic.

Well it's mighty white of your intelligent, well-reasoned, fair-minded and impartial ass to come to the defense of the liberals and Obama like this! I bet your mom is so proud! Of course, your math teacher, if he wasn't such a liberal goob, would probably be miffed at how you can see the national debt is $6 trillion higher than it was before Obama, but not see how Obama is responsible for that.... and not only not see it, but have the audacity to challenge people to show you where Obama'a policies have cost us money!
 
I don't listen to the media anymore. I read various opinions from numerous sources, and I may browse the MSM for details, but I don't depend on anyone to honestly give me the news anymore. Now what I don't read, is kook theory conspiratorial bullshit about the 1%ers and corporate American price gougers. Most of that is rooted in Marxist/Maoist Socialist propaganda, and nothing more. All the prices in hospitals can be directly traced to indigent care laws, which obligated the hospitals to handle emergency care for anyone who couldn't afford to pay. Because they have this burden (not the taxpayers) we have unusually higher prices as paying consumers of the hospital, that is called capitalism. We paying customers have to pay enough to offset the non-paying users of the system, and this is how that is done in a capitalist world.

Let's be clear on what I "assume about you" here... You are a liberal socialist who thinks he can fool people into believing he is independent and fair-minded. You will go out of your way to try and prove this, by repeatedly reassuring us that you "don't support" ACA, Obama, Liberals, Democrats...whatever. Thou dost protest too much, you are a liberal socialist who is trying to pull the wool over our eyes.



Well it's mighty white of your intelligent, well-reasoned, fair-minded and impartial ass to come to the defense of the liberals and Obama like this! I bet your mom is so proud! Of course, your math teacher, if he wasn't such a liberal goob, would probably be miffed at how you can see the national debt is $6 trillion higher than it was before Obama, but not see how Obama is responsible for that.... and not only not see it, but have the audacity to challenge people to show you where Obama'a policies have cost us money!

*smiling ear to ear and partly sad*

Yea, price gouging doesn't happen. Lawyers/Lawsuits don't drive up prices. It's only old people who drive up the cost...

Why does my daughters physical therapy bench cost $167 when I could make it for $25, to cover the possibility of lawsuits. You don't think it costs big corp money when lawyers cause large scale recalls of a product? You haven't noticed terrible recalls such as "Bumbo seats were recalled because a parent could set them on the edge of a high standing table and they could tip it over". I'm in a recall right now of a high chair which was recalled because "if it's not put together properly" Wood swing sets are getting recalled because "over time the wood can rot due to weather".

You saying "it's mighty white" is a clear indicator you are racist. You can't read, obviously, I don't support the Obama spending. You just hate someone that recognizes he isn't as bad of a president as Bush because you are clearly racist.

Maybe you should go back and read the thread. You are embarassing yourself with this post. You must be drinking or high..
 
*smiling ear to ear and partly sad*

Yea, price gouging doesn't happen. Lawyers/Lawsuits don't drive up prices. It's only old people who drive up the cost...

Why does my daughters physical therapy bench cost $167 when I could make it for $25, to cover the possibility of lawsuits. You don't think it costs big corp money when lawyers cause large scale recalls of a product? You haven't noticed terrible recalls such as "Bumbo seats were recalled because a parent could set them on the edge of a high standing table and they could tip it over". I'm in a recall right now of a high chair which was recalled because "if it's not put together properly" Wood swing sets are getting recalled because "over time the wood can rot due to weather".

You saying "it's mighty white" is a clear indicator you are racist. You can't read, obviously, I don't support the Obama spending. You just hate someone that recognizes he isn't as bad of a president as Bush because you are clearly racist.

Maybe you should go back and read the thread. You are embarassing yourself with this post. You must be drinking or high..

Oh yes, I am aware the cost of malpractice insurance, the cost of litigation and lack of TORT reforms, contribute to the high costs, it's not just the indigent care, it's not just the old people, it's everything that can impact the price consumers pay. What it's NOT, is "price gouging" because there is too much competition and regulation, for that to be the case. We don't have monopolies who can exploit the need for their product, we passed laws to do away with those years ago. Every regulatory burden we place on the health care industry, has an impact on final cost to the consumer, there is no magic fairy who takes care of this.

Thanks to Obama and his health care plan, we will now have to pay these costs AND pay for the insurance to cover people who can't afford it, AND those who are already sick. Naturally, just like all other capitalist enterprise, these costs will be realized by the paying consumers. Our insurance premiums (if we can find them) are going to start going through the roof. Simple-minded pimple-faces like you, who've bought into the "1% price gougers" rhetoric, will scream and moan, but the bottom line is, someone has to pay for this stuff, it is never FREE! The next step will be to try and "force" hospitals and doctors into providing their services as lower costs, but since they can't do that and still maintain a reasonable profit, they will go out of business. Eventually, the Socialist Marxist government has to step in and TELL people they are going to become doctors and nurses, because that's what society needs, and they no longer have the freedom to make those choices on their own. We continue to piss away our freedom and liberty, for the sake of an all-powerful federal government who we believe is able to take care of all our needs. What this line of thinking has generally resulted in throughout history, is millions of dead bodies in mass graves.

Don't make presumptions about me, you know nothing about my personal life. "It's mighty white of you" is NOT a racist comment. If you have somehow interpreted it as one, that is YOUR problem, not mine. I am 1/16th Creole, and the last time I looked at a Creole person, they looked pretty 'black' to me. I'm also 1/8 Native American Indian, who are obviously NOT white people. Furthermore, I am also 1/8 Japanese, which is Oriental, again, NOT white people. For a "white supremacist" I sure as fuck have a lot of ethnicity, don't I? It causes me great consternation when I have to determine which race I feel is "superior" and which one I feel is "inferior" to the others. Now, I could come here wearing my ass on my shoulders with my Native American heritage, and beguile the "white man" regularly, like so many other ethnic people like to do, but I don't do that, I try to keep race out of the discussion and out of the arguments. Until some snot-nose punk decides to call me a "racist" without any basis other than his misinterpreted false assumptions.
 
So your answer is none. Thanks for playing.

No, the answer is Obama is G. W. Bush on steroids. The national debt has gone up 5 trillion $ since Democrats have had total control of Congress and Obama has been President and since Democrats maintained control of the Senate. They could have prevented all of that, (and even gotten some Republican support), but didn’t. They didn’t end the wars, and they put TARP on steroids. It’s past time you lefties stopped blaming Bush and took some responsibility for your idiot heroes in Washington. The cost of Obamacare will be calculated for years to come.

“If you think healthcare is expensive now, wait till Obamacare is in full force.”
 
strange.....I have listed five actions of Obama that resulted in increased expenditures and not a single liberal poster has dared to defend the profligate spending of Obama........probably because they realize his actions are indefensible......
 
strange.....I have listed five actions of Obama that resulted in increased expenditures and not a single liberal poster has dared to defend the profligate spending of Obama........probably because they realize his actions are indefensible......

Nope they will still blame Bush. Hell, there was some meth head shit hook on Democrat Underground who blamed the increased payroll taxes in Bush. No kidding. These people are pathological and have a propensity for cognitive dissonance that is unparalleled
 
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