Nixon , right to work laws and the current R strategy

cawacko said:
I would love to see their definition of "just cause". My guess they'll try to imitate the teachers union and there will never be 'just cause' to fire anyone.

Private sector unions are never going to revive their glory days. The nature of our economy and the global economy has changed.
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I can take you to references from the 1890's by American capitalist that said pretty much the same thing about trade/labor unions in their time and they were far more ruthless against unions then the present crop of Republican corporitist. They were wrong then and you are wrong now.
 
Topspin said:
unions won't work until union morons realize the company's first objective is to make a profit. Your life would be 1,000 times less stressfull had you taken a business management class or economis you tool.:pke:
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I think you have it backwards Topper. Unions work when companies place maximizing profits, for a very few stake holders, at the cost of those whom produce those profits, i.e. the workers.

When companies include their workers, as stake holders, with a specific sets of rights and a stake in the profits generated by the company, then a Unions viability becomes questionable.

From more than a business standpoint, as an ethical constraint, the managers of a business have one primary ethical concern. Maximizing profits for the stake holders of that company. Other important ethical constraints are always secondary to this paradigm and it is this ethical constraint that make unions not only viable, but at times, necessary. But again, I stress, a unions viability depends on how a company defines and treats its stake holders.
 
Topspin said:
asshat my children could beat you like a rented mule (2 college wrestlers) why would I even bother with you.

Not many companies are imbracing unions unless out of necessity like auto's. Don't get me wrong I'd take union benefits in finance in a heart beat. It's a fantasy world. you live and die in the 21st century on your skill set not begging with a moral twist.
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You only have it half right Top. You have correctly pointed out the legacy problems that US auto and airline manufacturers have. US Auto manufacturers have $3,000/car in benefits they must pay retired workers. There's a hell of a lot of quality and bells and whistles that Toyota and Honda can build into a comparable car for $3,000! It's a serious competative edge.

Unions for low skilled workers are affective when a company needs large numbers of them, are profitable and don't really care how they exploit them. The relationship becomes symbiotic. You don't see a lot of labor unions presently in China and Mexico but that day is coming as the demands for profits increase (that cup never gets full) and the exploitation in those regions increase.

Unions are actually at their most successful for skilled and professional class of workers. Those in the skilled trades who are in unions make substantially more income then those who don't. Unions also provide a standard of performance for those trades and in my experience Union tradesman tend to have superior skills to non-union. Let us not forget that Professional associations are essentially unions too. Physicians, Lawyers, Engineers, Nurses, etc almost all have professional association which determine what skills are required to be a member, police the profession for competency and have a big say in the market place on compensation.

This is the segment in which you will see unions grow, in the skilled and professional classes. Particularly in corporations where it's all to common to have a manager with an art history degree managing highly technical people who's skills and knowledge they do not understand, call it "The Dilbert Affect" ;-)
 
you maid my point mottley the automakers are saddled with legacy cost. It's unionized cost that competitors don't have to pay.
Please name me three companies that have outstanding profits and big unions.
 
Mottleydude said:
I can take you to references from the 1890's by American capitalist that said pretty much the same thing about trade/labor unions in their time and they were far more ruthless against unions then the present crop of Republican corporitist. They were wrong then and you are wrong now.
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I don't think he is wrong, based on the power that current unions have. I have watched them, in my lifetime, simply collapse on themselves.
 
Mottleydude said:
I can take you to references from the 1890's by American capitalist that said pretty much the same thing about trade/labor unions in their time and they were far more ruthless against unions then the present crop of Republican corporitist. They were wrong then and you are wrong now.
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Go try and unionize workers in the Silicon Valley. A few groups tried and got laughed at. Young entrepreneurial people aren't going to be held back by a union.

I remember when they tried to unionize the WWF (now WWE). They were laughed at as well. Do you think the top producing performers wanted to make the same amount as the people who no one pays to see? No way.

Try unionizing financial analysts. Do you think young ambitious analyst will want to be held back by some union contract where the best anayst can only make what the weakest analyst make? No way.
 
cawacko said:
Go try and unionize workers in the Silicon Valley. A few groups tried and got laughed at. Young entrepreneurial people aren't going to be held back by a union.

I remember when they tried to unionize the WWF (now WWE). They were laughed at as well. Do you think the top producing performers wanted to make the same amount as the people who no one pays to see? No way.

Try unionizing financial analysts. Do you think young ambitious analyst will want to be held back by some union contract where the best anayst can only make what the weakest analyst make? No way.
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Young entrepeneurial people will unionize when they realize they will be burned too, when these globalization patterns continue.
 
cawacko said:
With all due respect I don't think you've spent much time in the Silicon Valley.
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With all due respect, any rational person can see that the lives of american IT workers are intentionally being destroyed by corporations and their statists on the payroll. The only rational reaction to that is to do something. I don't believe those in silicon valley are as stupid as you assert.
 
with all due respect asshat spends all his time in a crying towel.
You'd think he was a laid off hotel room cleaner not a half ass programmer.
what assmoron refuses to accept is that his young contemporaries are the brightess most successfull people in the world. They have just left him way in the dust in next to last place. I pitty the fool.:clink:
 
Topspin said:
with all due respect asshat spends all his time in a crying towel.
You'd think he was a laid off hotel room cleaner not a half ass programmer.
what assmoron refuses to accept is that his young contemporaries are the brightess most successfull people in the world. They have just left him way in the dust in next to last place. I pitty the fool.:clink:
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No. they're just stupid, being led astray by immoral sellout fascists like yourself.
 
The globalization horse left the barn in the 90's. It will be great for us and china. Morons like asshat are stuck in the 60's LOFL
Do a little research and see all the ways wealth is being created in the US.
 
Look at all the ways wealth is dissappearing.
the wealth that dissappears the easiest is the least helpful to the USA.
 
Pretty soon it will be Americans on the phone with the people in India and they will be saying, can you repeat that, I can't understand you.
 
This is stupid. The stupidity of these thoughts deserves its own adjective.

If America is falling apart due to free trade and India is now the center of the economic universe, move there.
 
Ahahahah, always the last argument of the desperate!

No, I plan to stay and fight for our Constitution and the rights of the American worker, for my children and grandchildren.
 
Watermark said:
This is stupid. The stupidity of these thoughts deserves its own adjective.

If America is falling apart due to free trade and India is now the center of the economic universe, move there.
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The free movement of people is only one way. Im not sure the indian immigration policy would allow it.
 
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