No one has a right to healthcare

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CFM

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No One Has a Right to Health Care
by Jacob G. Hornberger February 3, 2016

Democratic Presidential candidate Bernie Sanders says that everyone has a right to health care. Unfortunately, none of his presidential opponents, Democrat or Republican, is going to challenge him on the point. They’re too scared that they’d lose votes by challenging a standard socialist shibboleth in America.

Sanders’ assertion only goes to show how American socialists (i.e., progressives) have warped and perverted the concept of rights within the minds of the American people. The fact is that no one has a right to health care any more than he has a right to a home, a car, food, spouse, or anything else.

The correct concept of rights was enunciated by Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence, the document that Americans ironically celebrate every Fourth of July. Jefferson observed that people have been endowed with certain unalienable rights, among which are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

http://fff.org/2016/02/03/no-one-has-a-right-to-health-care/
 
CFM said:
No One Has a Right to Health Care
by Jacob G. Hornberger February 3, 2016

Democratic Presidential candidate Bernie Sanders says that everyone has a right to health care. Unfortunately, none of his presidential opponents, Democrat or Republican, is going to challenge him on the point. They’re too scared that they’d lose votes by challenging a standard socialist shibboleth in America.

Sanders’ assertion only goes to show how American socialists (i.e., progressives) have warped and perverted the concept of rights within the minds of the American people. The fact is that no one has a right to health care any more than he has a right to a home, a car, food, spouse, or anything else.

The correct concept of rights was enunciated by Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence, the document that Americans ironically celebrate every Fourth of July. Jefferson observed that people have been endowed with certain unalienable rights, among which are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

http://fff.org/2016/02/03/no-one-has-a-right-to-health-care/
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Healthcare is a subset of the right to life and happiness.
 
Rana said:
Lol, I am sorry helping others makes you miserable.
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Being forced to do it is the problem. I don't have a problem helping those for whom I'VE determined need it. My problem is with people like you thinking it's your place to make that determination for me.

So sad you equate help and a mandate. Help involves a willing choice by the giver not a mandate by the taker. You morons think compassion comes from seeing how many others you can have forced to fund what you won't do yourselves. The government doesn't have to be involved. You WANT them to because you aren't willing to do it yourselves. If you think someone else deserves it, pay their premium. Problem solved. The person you say deserves it gets it and others aren't forced to do it your way. We both know you won't.
 
CFM said:
Being forced to do it is the problem. I don't have a problem helping those for whom I'VE determined need it. My problem is with people like you thinking it's your place to make that determination for me.

So sad you equate help and a mandate. Help involves a willing choice by the giver not a mandate by the taker. You morons think compassion comes from seeing how many others you can have forced to fund what you won't do yourselves. The government doesn't have to be involved. You WANT them to because you aren't willing to do it yourselves. If you think someone else deserves it, pay their premium. Problem solved. The person you say deserves it gets it and others aren't forced to do it your way. We both know you won't.
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That's not how we do things in this country and people like yourself usually end up benefitting from our system as well at some point. Smile one of these days you will be grateful
 
Rana said:
That's not how we do things in this country and people like yourself usually end up benefitting from our system as well at some point. Smile one of these days you will be grateful
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How do I benefit from someone not supporting their own kids or their own family? I'll be grateful when the freeloaders who demand everything they want as a right start doing for themselves what they should be doing for themselves.
 
reason10 said:
No it isn't.


That's just plain socialist BULLSHIT.

Jefferson would spit on you for saying that.
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Notice that Rana conveniently leaves out part of that. It's a right to PURSUE happiness not a right TO happiness. That's how bleeding hearts operate.
 
Rana said:
Healthcare is a subset of the right to life and happiness.
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They don't have a right TO happiness just the PURSUIT of it. In that pursuit, they can deny someone else the right to PURSUE happiness. When more of what I'VE earned is taken away to fund someone else's pursuit, it lessens my ability to pursue it and that is unacceptable.
 
CFM said:
How do I benefit from someone not supporting their own kids or their own family? I'll be grateful when the freeloaders who demand everything they want as a right start doing for themselves what they should be doing for themselves.
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Really? That's your take?

A friend of mine, who lives in upstate New York, couldn't afford insurance. He and his wife both work two jobs. They have no children.

Before the Affordable Care Act, they had two options: A roof over their head, electricity and food in the fridge, or healthcare (because their employers didn't offer it).

What do you say about people like that, who actually are working long hours in two jobs to make ends meet, but couldn't afford the outrageous costs of healthcare?

Are you really THAT isolated and blind that you're not aware there are people in that kind of situation?
 
CFM said:
No One Has a Right to Health Care
by Jacob G. Hornberger February 3, 2016

Democratic Presidential candidate Bernie Sanders says that everyone has a right to health care. Unfortunately, none of his presidential opponents, Democrat or Republican, is going to challenge him on the point. They’re too scared that they’d lose votes by challenging a standard socialist shibboleth in America.

Sanders’ assertion only goes to show how American socialists (i.e., progressives) have warped and perverted the concept of rights within the minds of the American people. The fact is that no one has a right to health care any more than he has a right to a home, a car, food, spouse, or anything else.

The correct concept of rights was enunciated by Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence, the document that Americans ironically celebrate every Fourth of July. Jefferson observed that people have been endowed with certain unalienable rights, among which are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

http://fff.org/2016/02/03/no-one-has-a-right-to-health-care/
Click to expand...

The Constitution includes a reference to unenumerated rights.
 
Stelakh said:
Really? That's your take?

A friend of mine, who lives in upstate New York, couldn't afford insurance. He and his wife both work two jobs. They have no children.

Before the Affordable Care Act, they had two options: A roof over their head, electricity and food in the fridge, or healthcare (because their employers didn't offer it).

What do you say about people like that, who actually are working long hours in two jobs to make ends meet, but couldn't afford the outrageous costs of healthcare?

Are you really THAT isolated and blind that you're not aware there are people in that kind of situation?
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I'm fully aware of people in that kind of situation. However, you've provided enough information for me to determine that there is a 3rd option you bleeding hearts totally ignore that would satisfy both of us. Those you think deserve what they can't afford would have it and I wouldn't be one of those forced to pay for it.

The option is since they're YOUR friend and YOU think they should have something they can't afford, YOU pay their premiums. They have coverage which is what you want and no taxpayer is forced to subsidize it for them which is what I want.

Deal?
 
Stelakh said:
The Constitution includes a reference to unenumerated rights.
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Compassion for YOUR friends comes from YOU helping them when they're in need not from demanding the rest of us be forced to provide to YOUR friends what you won't provide to them.

Something doesn't become a right because those unable to afford it wants it and demands taxpayers hand it to them. As for your friends whose employer doesn't provide healthcare all I can say is, NOT MY PROBLEM. Here's a novel idea. Find a new employer. I know that would involve an effort. However, if people who demand something would spend half as much time trying to do better for themselves as they spent whining about how someone owes them something, it wouldn't be an issue.
 
CFM said:
I'm fully aware of people in that kind of situation. However, you've provided enough information for me to determine that there is a 3rd option you bleeding hearts totally ignore that would satisfy both of us. Those you think deserve what they can't afford would have it and I wouldn't be one of those forced to pay for it.

The option is since they're YOUR friend and YOU think they should have something they can't afford, YOU pay their premiums. They have coverage which is what you want and no taxpayer is forced to subsidize it for them which is what I want.

Deal?
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You're not digging yourself out of a hole with that one.

And what if I couldn't afford to pay their premiums but a couple million people could?

I mind people who want handouts but are freeloading. I have no trouble, however, helping those who NEED help and are NOT freeloading.

Let's say there's a diabetic who can't afford insulin (because despite it having been used for a VERY long time the cost is kept high by manufacturers (my sister's is $343.00 a vial and she goes through a vial every 2 days and fortunately has damned good insurance)). They can't afford the high cost, but a group of people who would wind up giving pennies per paycheck could help ensure that person has the insulin they need to survive.

I have no trouble helping that person even though I never spoke to them, laid eyes on them, or know who they are. Because we all need help at some point, some time, somewhere. And who am I to damn someone to a life of illness and misery if I can afford to help without killing my own financial bottom line?

If THAT is your definition of "bleeding heart," I'll gladly accept it - because I believe people are more important.
 
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Stelakh said:
You're not digging yourself out of a hole with that one.

And what if I couldn't afford to pay their premiums but a couple million people could?

I mind people who want handouts but are freeloading. I have no trouble, however, helping those who NEED help and are NOT freeloading.



Let's say there's a diabetic who can't afford insulin (because despite it having been used for a VERY long time the cost is kept high by manufacturers (my sister's is $343.00 a vial and she goes through a vial every 2 days and fortunately has damned good insurance). They can't afford the high cost, but a group of people who would wind up giving pennies per paycheck could help ensure that person has the insulin they need to survive.

I have no trouble helping that person even though I never spoke to them, laid eyes on them, or know who they are. Because we all need help at some point, some time, somewhere. And who am I to damn someone to a life of illness and misery if I can afford to help without killing my own financial bottom line?

If THAT is your definition of "bleeding heart," I'll gladly accept it - because I believe people are more important.
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Just as I thought, you won't even help your own friends.

Yes YOU do have trouble helping those you believe need it and you have no problem demanding everyone else do it, too. If you had no trouble, you'd pay it yourself.

Once again you argue about amount. It's not about amount, it's about YOU demanding others be forced to pay anything. I have that group of people who could do that and based on your numbers, it would be more than a few pennies but if you care as much as you CLAIM you care, it shouldn't be a problem.

Once again, you do have trouble helping. That's proven when you demand others be forced to do it and justify it with things like it's only a little bit or if we all do it.

We all need help at some point? Tell me when I've ever demanded a penny from anyone. In fact, because I practice what I preach and despite being in a place where I could have received it, I didn't take it. No one owed it to me.

A better question is who are you to determine what anyone else should do in this situation?

If you believed people were more important, you would have helped your two friends. That you didn't and made an excuse as to why proves you don't care. Saying you do then expecting others to provide even a dime isn't caring.
 
CFM said:
Just as I thought, you won't even help your own friends.

Yes YOU do have trouble helping those you believe need it and you have no problem demanding everyone else do it, too. If you had no trouble, you'd pay it yourself.

Once again you argue about amount. It's not about amount, it's about YOU demanding others be forced to pay anything. I have that group of people who could do that and based on your numbers, it would be more than a few pennies but if you care as much as you CLAIM you care, it shouldn't be a problem.

Once again, you do have trouble helping. That's proven when you demand others be forced to do it and justify it with things like it's only a little bit or if we all do it.

We all need help at some point? Tell me when I've ever demanded a penny from anyone. In fact, because I practice what I preach and despite being in a place where I could have received it, I didn't take it. No one owed it to me.

A better question is who are you to determine what anyone else should do in this situation?

If you believed people were more important, you would have helped your two friends. That you didn't and made an excuse as to why proves you don't care. Saying you do then expecting others to provide even a dime isn't caring.
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Wanting to help and being able to are entirely different things that you don't seem capable of understanding.

I pay my taxes, I pay my mortgage, my bills, and other items required of me. Can I afford to pay for someone else's healthcare at the same time every single month? Not on my own. (Although I did, in fact, pay off a property tax lien for them. So I've actually put my money where my mouth is while ALSO never asking for any kind of assistance.)

Can I pool resources with other people to help a whole hell of a lot of people, whether they're friends or not? Yep. Do I donate to organizations that help people in need? Yep. Have I given pro bono legal services to those who couldn't afford it? Yep. Do my wife and I donate our free time to organizations that need someone physically there to help? Yep. Do I pay for supplies for her students whose parents can't afford things like notebooks, paper, pencils and the like? Yep. Do we identify kids in her class who show up to school without a jacket because their parents can't afford one then make sure the jacket shows up on their doorstep? Yep. Do we make sure that kids get lunch? Yep.

It's so important that you find out a little more about a person before you make wild assumptions about whether or not they're doing what they're saying.

And it may come as a surprise, but I actually can't tell you when you've asked for or accepted help. I don't know you or your story. So I didn't make that wild assumption.

I said that some time, somewhere, everyone needs help. That includes, you may find, the future, when you may indeed ask someone for some kind of help.
 
Stelakh said:
Wanting to help and being able to are entirely different things that you don't seem capable of understanding.

I pay my taxes, I pay my mortgage, my bills, and other items required of me. Can I afford to pay for someone else's healthcare at the same time every single month? Not on my own. (Although I did, in fact, pay off a property tax lien for them. So I've actually put my money where my mouth is while ALSO never asking for any kind of assistance.)

Can I pool resources with other people to help a whole hell of a lot of people, whether they're friends or not? Yep. Do I donate to organizations that help people in need? Yep. Have I given pro bono legal services to those who couldn't afford it? Yep. Do my wife and I donate our free time to organizations that need someone physically there to help? Yep. Do I pay for supplies for her students whose parents can't afford things like notebooks, paper, pencils and the like? Yep. Do we identify kids in her class who show up to school without a jacket because their parents can't afford one then make sure the jacket shows up on their doorstep? Yep. Do we make sure that kids get lunch? Yep.

It's so important that you find out a little more about a person before you make wild assumptions about whether or not they're doing what they're saying.

And it may come as a surprise, but I actually can't tell you when you've asked for or accepted help. I don't know you or your story. So I didn't make that wild assumption.

I said that some time, somewhere, everyone needs help. That includes, you may find, the future, when you may indeed ask someone for some kind of help.
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If you want to but aren't able to, STFU. If you can't do what you think needs to be done, you have no leg to stand on demanding others be a part of it.

Until you pay for everything you say they need, you haven't put your money where you mouth is. If you can't afford to pay for things you think they should have on your own, don't demand someone else pay even a small portion of it.

There you go. Find all you bleeding hearts who think things like this should be done and help whomever you want. I won't say a word to you. By doing all those things yourself, you're doing it the way it needs to be done. Don't think the rest of us don't do things like that either. It's when YOU determine that the rest of us should do it because YOU see a need is when he problem begins.

When you do it on your own, you are. When you start promoting government mandates to do thing you think should be done, it's not a wild assumption. I won't say a word to you if you do all those things yourself because you're making the choice with YOUR money. When you start making choices with MY money, that's when things are viewed differently.

That's right, you can't tell me when I've asked for or accepted help. However, you've already made the assumption when you said everyone has done so. when you said EVERYONE needs help. I see you use the you MAY need it sometime in the future excuse. Unless that happens and you have no proof that it will, making such a statement is foolish. It's very Liberal and foolish.
 
Stelakh said:
Wanting to help and being able to are entirely different things that you don't seem capable of understanding.

I pay my taxes, I pay my mortgage, my bills, and other items required of me. Can I afford to pay for someone else's healthcare at the same time every single month? Not on my own. (Although I did, in fact, pay off a property tax lien for them. So I've actually put my money where my mouth is while ALSO never asking for any kind of assistance.)

Can I pool resources with other people to help a whole hell of a lot of people, whether they're friends or not? Yep. Do I donate to organizations that help people in need? Yep. Have I given pro bono legal services to those who couldn't afford it? Yep. Do my wife and I donate our free time to organizations that need someone physically there to help? Yep. Do I pay for supplies for her students whose parents can't afford things like notebooks, paper, pencils and the like? Yep. Do we identify kids in her class who show up to school without a jacket because their parents can't afford one then make sure the jacket shows up on their doorstep? Yep. Do we make sure that kids get lunch? Yep.

It's so important that you find out a little more about a person before you make wild assumptions about whether or not they're doing what they're saying.

And it may come as a surprise, but I actually can't tell you when you've asked for or accepted help. I don't know you or your story. So I didn't make that wild assumption.

I said that some time, somewhere, everyone needs help. That includes, you may find, the future, when you may indeed ask someone for some kind of help.
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Until you can, what you WANT to do doesn't mean shit. If you can't do what you think needs to be done, you have no leg to stand on demanding others be a part of it.

Until you pay for everything you say they need, you haven't put your money where you mouth is. If you can't afford to pay for things you think they should have on your own, don't demand someone else pay even a small portion of it.

There you go. Find all you bleeding hearts who think things like this should be done and help whomever you want. I won't say a word to you. By doing all those things yourself, you're doing it the way it needs to be done. Don't think the rest of us don't do things like that either. It's when YOU determine that the rest of us should do it because YOU see a need is when he problem begins.

When you do it on your own, you are. When you start promoting government mandates to do thing you think should be done, it's not a wild assumption. I won't say a word to you if you do all those things yourself because you're making the choice with YOUR money. When you start making choices with MY money, that's when things are viewed differently.

That's right, you can't tell me when I've asked for or accepted help. However, you've already made the assumption when you said everyone has done so. when you said EVERYONE needs help. I see you use the you MAY need it sometime in the future excuse. Unless that happens and you have no proof that it will, making such a statement is foolish. It's very Liberal and foolish.
 
CFM said:
No One Has a Right to Health Care
by Jacob G. Hornberger February 3, 2016

Democratic Presidential candidate Bernie Sanders says that everyone has a right to health care. Unfortunately, none of his presidential opponents, Democrat or Republican, is going to challenge him on the point. They’re too scared that they’d lose votes by challenging a standard socialist shibboleth in America.

Sanders’ assertion only goes to show how American socialists (i.e., progressives) have warped and perverted the concept of rights within the minds of the American people. The fact is that no one has a right to health care any more than he has a right to a home, a car, food, spouse, or anything else.

The correct concept of rights was enunciated by Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence, the document that Americans ironically celebrate every Fourth of July. Jefferson observed that people have been endowed with certain unalienable rights, among which are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

http://fff.org/2016/02/03/no-one-has-a-right-to-health-care/
Click to expand...

Yeah, you run with that "every man for himself" "I got mine you all can go f*ck yourselves" attitude and see how far it gets you.
 
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