Obama and his 'Bitterness' Comments

cawacko

cawacko

Well-known member
What is with liberals speaking in San Francisco and ending up making controversial comments recently?

Depending on one's perspective Obama's comments could be interpreted as spot on and speaking the truth all the way to very elitist and out of touch.

For those who maybe haven't seen the comments yet here they are:

"""At issue are comments Obama made privately at a fundraiser in San Francisco last Sunday. He explained his troubles winning over working class voters, saying they have become frustrated with economic conditions:

"It's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

The comments, posted on the Huffington Post political Web site Friday, set off a storm of criticism from Clinton, Republican nominee-in-waiting John McCain and other GOP officials. It threatened to highlight an Obama Achilles heel — the image that the Harvard-trained lawyer is arrogant, aloof and carries himself with an air of superiority."""

Obama has now said his remarks were ill chosen. I think he could be accurate in describing the "bitterness" people feel for economic conditions in small towns over the past 20 to 30 years where manufactoring jobs that drive these towns have been leaving. His mistake, in my opinion, was tying it to these people's faith or values in a sense mocking them.

It will be interesting to see if this has any effect on voting in Pennslyvania or just blows over. This campaign has not been boring that's for sure.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/04/12/politics/p081301D55.DTL&tsp=1
 
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This is so much about nothing. Tell me he isn't right? Tell me that in working class neighborhoods people don't talk about affirmative action pushing them out of jobs, or don't accuse the "secular liberals" as at fault for all that bad or blaming some other group that isn't theres for the problems going on. How is this elitist, which is what McSimilar had to call it. I don't see what all the hub bub is about. The truth is people don't want to debate the issues they only want to say "see he is an elitist and we don't want an elitist to run the country. To hell with all those Harvard and Yale...um well at least those Harvard elitists".
 
Socrtease said:
This is so much about nothing. Tell me he isn't right? Tell me that in working class neighborhoods people don't talk about affirmative action pushing them out of jobs, or don't accuse the "secular liberals" as at fault for all that bad or blaming some other group that isn't theres for the problems going on. How is this elitist, which is what McSimilar had to call it. I don't see what all the hub bub is about. The truth is people don't want to debate the issues they only want to say "see he is an elitist and we don't want an elitist to run the country. To hell with all those Harvard and Yale...um well at least those Harvard elitists".
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Actually it was Hillary who called him elitist (though McCain probably did as well I just saw Hillary's comments televised). I think that came from the appearance of mocking people's values that is deriving this controversy.
 
......My god.......this changes everything. That's it, I'm switching my vote to the person who lies about sniper fire stories and tries to override the will of the people. Or maybe I'll switch to the guy who wants to stay the course.
 
Obama later explained that his statement of "clinging to guns" etc. meant the voters chose to vote on issues other than economy. But if that is what he meant, he certainly said it very poorly the first time. I thought he was supposed to be such a great speaker. The manner he expressed the his idea on voter motivation was a larger-than-average misspeaking. I did get quite angry over the quote (since 2nd amendment rights are a big issue of mine) until I read his explanation of what he meant.

I do not believe Obama was actually mocking those who vote other issues. But, even accepting he meant what he explained the second time, it indicates to me he is not nearly as "in touch" with voters as he claims to be. To claim that voting for a pro-gun rights candidate is simply due to "bitterness" over the economic situation is making a rather large assumption.

The issues he named, and others, are legitimate issues that people of all economic classes are concerned about. And they are issues that may tip a voter toward one candidate over another regardless of how they feel about the economy. Not everyone who ignores economic issues in favor of other issues does so because they have given up on economic issues. For some, economy simply isn't as big an issue as the freedoms represented by second amendment rights, gay rights, etc.
 
cawacko said:
What is with liberals speaking in San Francisco and ending up making controversial comments recently?

Depending on one's perspective Obama's comments could be interpreted as spot on and speaking the truth all the way to very elitist and out of touch.

For those who maybe haven't seen the comments yet here they are:

"""At issue are comments Obama made privately at a fundraiser in San Francisco last Sunday. He explained his troubles winning over working class voters, saying they have become frustrated with economic conditions:

"It's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

The comments, posted on the Huffington Post political Web site Friday, set off a storm of criticism from Clinton, Republican nominee-in-waiting John McCain and other GOP officials. It threatened to highlight an Obama Achilles heel — the image that the Harvard-trained lawyer is arrogant, aloof and carries himself with an air of superiority."""

Obama has now said his remarks were ill chosen. I think he could be accurate in describing the "bitterness" people feel for economic conditions in small towns over the past 20 to 30 years where manufactoring jobs that drive these towns have been leaving. His mistake, in my opinion, was tying it to these people's faith or values in a sense mocking them.

It will be interesting to see if this has any effect on voting in Pennslyvania or just blows over. This campaign has not been boring that's for sure.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/04/12/politics/p081301D55.DTL&tsp=1
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The working class are idiots.

+300 points to Obama.
 
This is an even bigger non issue than the reverand thing.

They have no way to attack him so they create shit out of nothing.
 
It's derogatory and condescending yes but not all that inflammatory compared to the usual insults the left and right hurl at each other.

All in all, not a big deal.
 
Epicurus said:
It's derogatory and condescending yes but not all that inflammatory compared to the usual insults the left and right hurl at each other.

All in all, not a big deal.
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You're just bitter. I know because Obama, the "optimist" candidate told me so. So you turn to your guns, and your gods...

Poor, poor slob of a bitter man...

;)
 
I thought Hillary's 1st response was much more contemptuous. Something like "the Pennsylvanians I meet are optimistic & resilient, and ready to roll up their sleeves." If anyone has ever spent time in a small town where the local economy has tanked, that's hardly what you encounter, and it's not condescending to say so.

Regardless, the media & most politicians never fail to fall short of even the lowest expectations.
 
Obama's " "problem" is that he talks to people like adults. Unfortunately, far too many Americans want to the spoken to like children and all they want to hear is a catchy tune so they can vote like candidates are contestants on American Idol.

Obama also said that many African-Americans remain bitter about the injustices of the past and a government they do not see working in their interests.

No uproar .. from anybody.

This election is as much of a test for the American people as it is for any candidate.

Has Bush, Rove, and the neocons taught us anything.
 
blackascoal said:
Obama's " "problem" is that he talks to people like adults. Unfortunately, far too many Americans want to the spoken to like children and all they want to hear is a catchy tune so they can vote like candidates are contestants on American Idol.

Obama also said that many African-Americans remain bitter about the injustices of the past and a government they do not see working in their interests.

No uproar .. from anybody.

This election is as much of a test for the American people as it is for any candidate.

Has Bush, Rove, and the neocons taught us anything.
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Perhaps if he had made the same comment in PA or OH in an 'open forum' I could appreciate your point. In fact he made it in one of the most wealthy of the cities, at a behind-closed-doors fundraiser, with an audience that shares that particular vision of the rubes. His problem is the Huffington Post decided to share the recording made.
 
Kathianne said:
Perhaps if he had made the same comment in PA or OH in an 'open forum' I could appreciate your point. In fact he made it in one of the most wealthy of the cities, at a behind-closed-doors fundraiser, with an audience that shares that particular vision of the rubes. His problem is the Huffington Post decided to share the recording made.
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And .. he probably had some money in his pocket, which proves he doesn't like "working class" people.

I find your point lacking in seriousness given that I'm real sure that he's keenly aware that no setting is private and anything he says will be recorded and aired .. especially if there is political gain to be had from it.

His comment was right on point, but those who choose to make an issue out of it will certainly try.

I wonder what crowds Clinton and McCain hang out with .. given that both have more money than Obama. McCain through marriage to money and Clinton through "deals." I wonder how much "working class" background there is between them?
 
blackascoal said:
And .. he probably had some money in his pocket, which proves he doesn't like "working class" people.

I find your point lacking in seriousness given that I'm real sure that he's keenly aware that no setting is private and anything he says will be recorded and aired .. especially if there is political gain to be had from it.

His comment was right on point, but those who choose to make an issue out of it will certainly try.

I wonder what crowds Clinton and McCain hang out with .. given that both have more money than Obama. McCain through marriage to money and Clinton through "deals." I wonder how much "working class" background there is between them?
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If he's anything like most at that level, he hasn't money in his pocket. I grant you that none of them are like you or me, yet for some reason that want to act like they are to all of us.

Remember when Geo. Bush I was shocked by the scanners in supermarkets? :shock: Unless a real effort is made to educate these elite, they haven't a clue to what's up with middle or lower classes, regardless of race, creed, or sex.
 
Kathianne said:
If he's anything like most at that level, he hasn't money in his pocket. I grant you that none of them are like you or me, yet for some reason that want to act like they are to all of us.

Remember when Geo. Bush I was shocked by the scanners in supermarkets? :shock: Unless a real effort is made to educate these elite, they haven't a clue to what's up with middle or lower classes, regardless of race, creed, or sex.
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I'm sorry but I don't see Obama as elitist at all.

When he got out of Harvard, he went straight to the hood in Chicago, not the boardrooms of Wall Street when he most certainly could have at far greater financial gain.

He married a woman of poor beginnings when he could have married into wealth himself.

He speaks the language of working people, knows the issues they face, and has kept himself grounded to the plight of African-Americans when he could have gone a far different route.

I guarantee that he knows what supermarket scanners are and he knows how much a loaf of bread costs.

If we discounted presidents because they are highly educated and have money, there wouldn't be any US presidents.
 
blackascoal said:
I'm sorry but I don't see Obama as elitist at all.

When he got out of Harvard, he went straight to the hood in Chicago, not the boardrooms of Wall Street when he most certainly could have at far greater financial gain.

He married a woman of poor beginnings when he could have married into wealth himself.

He speaks the language of working people, knows the issues they face, and has kept himself grounded to the plight of African-Americans when he could have gone a far different route.

I guarantee that he knows what supermarket scanners are and he knows how much a loaf of bread costs.

If we discounted presidents because they are highly educated and have money, there wouldn't be any US presidents.
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BAC I agree with many of your posts, just not this one. I sincerely believe you are blinded in this case.

As for Michelle being 'poor', that doesn't seem to be the case, unless working class is now defined as 'poor'? In any case, both her brother and her went to Princeton for undergrad, he on a basketball scholarship; her? Well find no reference to scholarship.

She met Barack in a NY lawfirm, when he was an associate she was to mentor. So much for 'right to the hood.'
 
Kathianne said:
BAC I agree with many of your posts, just not this one. I sincerely believe you are blinded in this case.

As for Michelle being 'poor', that doesn't seem to be the case, unless working class is now defined as 'poor'? In any case, both her brother and her went to Princeton for undergrad, he on a basketball scholarship; her? Well find no reference to scholarship.

She met Barack in a NY lawfirm, when he was an associate she was to mentor. So much for 'right to the hood.'
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I often agree with you as well my sister .. just not this time.

Born on January 17, 1964, Michelle Robinson was raised in a one-bedroom apartment on Chicago's South Shore.

Of note is that she shared a "bedroom" with her brother, but it wasn't much of a bedroom. It was actually the living room with a divider down the middle. Michelle's father died in 1990 two years before she married Barack, but her mother is still alive and living in the same one-bedroom apartment, protected by a burglar-proof wrought-iron door and secured windows.
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http://www.squidoo.com/michelle-obama-pictures-biography

Michelle got to esteemed institutions of higher learning through her own intelligence, not favor, like Bush.

Her brother got there through his own intelligence and athletic ability.

I do not see them as elitists simply because they're smart.
 
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