Obama disagrees with high court on child rape case

[Cancel7]

allowing for a lot of subjectivity in rape convictions.

No I don’t think that the kind of subjectivity you have to show in order to consider the life-long physical devastation that is wreaked upon the very young victims of rape, would have any effect on date rapes.

 

[LadyT]

At the end of the day Obama won't decide something like this and I'm pretty sure he'll let the courts work it out.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

""It is better that ten guilty persons escape than one innocent suffer." - Sir William Blackstone"

I'm not down w/ that quote. If 10 guilty people escape - especially for crimes like the ones that this thread relates to - quite a few more than just one innocent will suffer.

There should be no such thing as a repeat offender for crimes like this. If it's going to be life in prison, they have to make it life in prison; no possibility of parole whatsoever.

If it's going to be 20 years to life it should be 20 years to life. If it's going to be life without parole it should be life without parole. There's no reason to abolish indeterminate sentences.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

No, and I think Thorn spoke very nicely to that early on in the thread. If you were only going to apply the death penalty in cases of child murder, you would also at the same time, ascertain that you need DNA, forensics, 100% no doubt, guilty. Do you know how some of these guys are caught? With a basement filled with dead rabbits. You know what they died from? Yeah. (I couldn’t believe that one either, but it’s true) You know what happens when they get their hands on a child? These are monsters walking around on two legs. There is no rehabilitation. If we can put them away for life with no parole, fine. But if some states want to execute them, and only them, with 100% certainty of guilt, and provided they have competent legal council, I can’t get upset over it, I’m sorry.

Darla, you know I take a very hard line on the death penalty. I wouldn't support it if it were only used on the most brutal people, if we could be 100% certain of their guilt, and it were free. Thinking the death penalty solves anything is just idiotic and I don't want to be associated with people who kill people.

 

[Cancel7]

Darla, you know I take a very hard line on the death penalty. I wouldn't support it if it were only used on the most brutal people, if we could be 100% certain of their guilt, and it were free. Thinking the death penalty solves anything is just idiotic and I don't want to be associated with people who kill people.

I know. I respect your position.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

PLEASE tell me .. how could he not know that?

Like I said... I seriously doubt he actually has ever believed in the death penalty. I seriously doubt Bill Clinton had ever actually believed in the death penalty. They're both intelligent men, but they're also both politicians. Micheal Dukakis would've been president had he pretended to believe in the death penalty, and we wouldn't have had this idiot president. It's morally relative but it ultimately brings about the greatest good.

 

[Onceler]

Darla, you know I take a very hard line on the death penalty. I wouldn't support it if it were only used on the most brutal people, if we could be 100% certain of their guilt, and it were free. Thinking the death penalty solves anything is just idiotic and I don't want to be associated with people who kill people.

I have always waivered on the death penalty. I don't think it's a deterrent, and there is no disputing that it lowers us as a society.

That said, it can give enormous comfort - in some circumstances - to the families of the victims, which is no small thing at all.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

I have always waivered on the death penalty. I don't think it's a deterrent, and there is no disputing that it lowers us as a society.

That said, it can give enormous comfort - in some circumstances - to the families of the victims, which is no small thing at all.

I wouldn't want you to think I'm indifferent to the feeling of victims Onceler. Sometimes I read about especially heinous murders and I just can't move for like half an hour because I feel so bad that it happened.

Which is when I start thinking, what if the death would give them comfort? Would it be worth it then?

But, you know, I don't really think it would provide any real, lasting comfort to them in the end... and the death penalty appeals process just puts them through something that they shouldn't have to go through. With LWOP, it's just over immediately and they're allowed to go on with their lives. So in the end, I think LWOP is better for everyone.

 

[Onceler]

I wouldn't want you to think I'm indifferent to the feeling of victims Onceler. Sometimes I read about especially heinous murders and I just can't move for like half an hour because I feel so bad that it happened.

Which is when I start thinking, what if the death would give them comfort? Would it be worth it then?

But, you know, I don't really think it would provide any real, lasting comfort to them in the end... and the death penalty appeals process just puts them through something that they shouldn't have to go through. With LWOP, it's just over immediately and they're allowed to go on with their lives. So in the end, I think LWOP is better for everyone.

You're probably right about the lasting comfort. For some of these people, there just won't be peace in their lives again.

On a philisophical/spiritual level, I agree with you. Ultimately, the death penalty requires one person to kill another. It's a fairly barbaric act, no matter what the method, and as a civilization, we're moving away from that kind of mentality, despite glaring examples to the contrary. I have little doubt that in 100 years time, it will be a thing of the past; the march of history is always toward progressive thought & more civilized approaches to our problems.

LWOP should be the way to go; what bums me out is that, in many cases, it is not given, and we do get a lot of repeat offenders for these kinds of crimes, which is unacceptable.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Well, this idea that this is happening to men, is what make date rape the hardest type of rape to prosecute. So it’s actually the natural next step of that argument. I don’t know the statistics on false rape filings, but I certainly support the most vigorous prosecution and serious penalties for them. They are far less common than rapes. For every one of them, there are probably a thousand rapists who are making that (false) claim.

We have a serious gap in prosecuting those things. The people that are in prison right now for rape and child molestation are just the tip of the iceberg. Whenever I here about a man claiming that it was consensual, I automatically take it with a grain of salt.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

LWOP should be the way to go; what bums me out is that, in many cases, it is not given, and we do get a lot of repeat offenders for these kinds of crimes, which is unacceptable.

A lot of states didn't have LWOP in the 80's or whatever but that's not really a problem any longer. Every state has it now, in some form or another. At second degree and first degree murder trial, the jury should just be given the option between 20 years to life (or so) and life without parole, instead of between 20 years to life and death.

 

[Cancel7]

We have a serious gap in prosecuting those things. The people that are in prison right now for rape and child molestation are just the tip of the iceberg. Whenever I here about a man claiming that it was consensual, I automatically take it with a grain of salt.

Me too.

 

[Cancel7]

You're probably right about the lasting comfort. For some of these people, there just won't be peace in their lives again.

On a philisophical/spiritual level, I agree with you. Ultimately, the death penalty requires one person to kill another. It's a fairly barbaric act, no matter what the method, and as a civilization, we're moving away from that kind of mentality, despite glaring examples to the contrary. I have little doubt that in 100 years time, it will be a thing of the past; the march of history is always toward progressive thought & more civilized approaches to our problems.

LWOP should be the way to go; what bums me out is that, in many cases, it is not given, and we do get a lot of repeat offenders for these kinds of crimes, which is unacceptable.

That’s what drives me crazy.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

The only murderer I ever met had only spent eight years in prison. Even for second degree it seemed ridiculously lenient.

But after reading up on it, I don't think something like that is possible anymore.

 

[Diuretic]

I still don't understand how a legislature can make the sentence for raping a child the same as for murdering the child. There's no deterrence to murdering the child.

 

[blackascoal]

I still don't understand how a legislature can make the sentence for raping a child the same as for murdering the child. There's no deterrence to murdering the child.

Exactly .. then why not simply murder the child after raping him/her if the penalty is the same?

 

[blackascoal]

Like I said... I seriously doubt he actually has ever believed in the death penalty. I seriously doubt Bill Clinton had ever actually believed in the death penalty. They're both intelligent men, but they're also both politicians. Micheal Dukakis would've been president had he pretended to believe in the death penalty, and we wouldn't have had this idiot president. It's morally relative but it ultimately brings about the greatest good.

So lets all sacrifice innocent people on the alter of "the greatest good" so democratic politicians can look good?

This is why America is the greatest prison nation history has ever known.

So we can look good.