Obama, same as Bush
- Thread starter SmarterthanYou
- Start date
good lord....do you deny that iraq helped obama beat out hillary?
It did; because he was vocal about opposing the war in the beginning. Hillary's support for the resolution & for invasion is what sunk her; she was not able to distance herself from those stances.
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SmarterthanYou
rebel
It should be obvious what he's up to. He's unwilling to relinquish executive power and he's going to protect the government from lawsuits. YOUR rights don't matter to him.
Was that your only point regarding Iraq?
Epicurus
Reasonable
Since you have progressively said this about Obama's continuation of Bush's bailout policy, the continuation of the war in Afghanistan, his nominees to the Cabinet, continued immunity for telecoms, and a vote in support of Bush's illegal FISA activities, a curious observer would wonder when indeed you would make that equation.
evince
Truthmatters
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/04/08/criticism/
I want you cons who defended Bush in locked step to realize Us Dems will not.
Several weeks ago, I noted that unlike the Right -- which turned itself into a virtual cult of uncritical reverence for George W. Bush especially during the first several years of his administration -- large numbers of Bush critics have been admirably willing to criticize Obama when he embraces the very policies that prompted so much anger and controversy during the Bush years. Last night, Keith Olbermann -- who has undoubtedly been one of the most swooning and often-uncritical admirers of Barack Obama of anyone in the country (behavior for which I rather harshly criticized him in the past) -- devoted the first two segments of his show to emphatically lambasting Obama and Eric Holder's DOJ for the story I wrote about on Monday: namely, the Obama administration's use of the radical Bush/Cheney state secrets doctrine and -- worse still -- a brand new claim of "sovereign immunity" to insist that courts lack the authority to decide whether the Bush administration broke the law in illegally spying on Americans.
The fact that Keith Olbermann, an intense Obama supporter, spent the first ten minutes of his show attacking Obama for replicating (and, in this instance, actually surpassing) some of the worst Bush/Cheney abuses of executive power and secrecy claims reflects just how extreme is the conduct of the Obama DOJ here. Just as revealingly, the top recommended Kos diary today (voted by the compulsively pro-Obama Kos readership) is one devoted to attacking Obama for his embrace of Bush/Cheney secrecy and immunity doctrines. Also, a front page Daily Kos post yesterday by McJoan vehemently criticizing Obama (and quoting my criticisms at length) sparked near universal condemnation of Obama in the hundreds of comments that followed. Additionally, my post on Monday spawned vehement objections to what Obama is doing in this area from the largest tech/privacy sites, such as Boing Boing and Slashdot.
I want you cons who defended Bush in locked step to realize Us Dems will not.
Several weeks ago, I noted that unlike the Right -- which turned itself into a virtual cult of uncritical reverence for George W. Bush especially during the first several years of his administration -- large numbers of Bush critics have been admirably willing to criticize Obama when he embraces the very policies that prompted so much anger and controversy during the Bush years. Last night, Keith Olbermann -- who has undoubtedly been one of the most swooning and often-uncritical admirers of Barack Obama of anyone in the country (behavior for which I rather harshly criticized him in the past) -- devoted the first two segments of his show to emphatically lambasting Obama and Eric Holder's DOJ for the story I wrote about on Monday: namely, the Obama administration's use of the radical Bush/Cheney state secrets doctrine and -- worse still -- a brand new claim of "sovereign immunity" to insist that courts lack the authority to decide whether the Bush administration broke the law in illegally spying on Americans.
The fact that Keith Olbermann, an intense Obama supporter, spent the first ten minutes of his show attacking Obama for replicating (and, in this instance, actually surpassing) some of the worst Bush/Cheney abuses of executive power and secrecy claims reflects just how extreme is the conduct of the Obama DOJ here. Just as revealingly, the top recommended Kos diary today (voted by the compulsively pro-Obama Kos readership) is one devoted to attacking Obama for his embrace of Bush/Cheney secrecy and immunity doctrines. Also, a front page Daily Kos post yesterday by McJoan vehemently criticizing Obama (and quoting my criticisms at length) sparked near universal condemnation of Obama in the hundreds of comments that followed. Additionally, my post on Monday spawned vehement objections to what Obama is doing in this area from the largest tech/privacy sites, such as Boing Boing and Slashdot.
As a progressive, Obama's budget proposal was one of the best political days I have had in over a decade. A total restructuring of America's priorities, to healthcare, education, alternative technology & other issues that are high on my list, but have gone almost ignored in the past 8 years.
Seriously, it is absolutely ludicrous to try to portray Obama as "Bush, the sequel."
SmarterthanYou
rebel
so, what you're basically saying is that you'll give Obama a pass on anything unconstitutional that he wants to do like Bush did, just so long as he spends money the way you want him to.
thanks for letting us know how you'll hold him accountable.
C
Cancel5
Guest
Absolutely, Obama is still in his first 100 days. A lot of this is transitioning.
He is a he is a President that has more than one fire to put out that the Bush administration poured gasoline on, so I am watching him, and although I disagree with some of the things they have done, (DoJ and wiretapping) I understand that he has to be briefed as a President, and his focus is on the prime issues that America is facing right now.
They will probably undo more of what the past administration has done as time goes by.
Why are you always so negative?
I didn't say "I give him a pass," nor did I imply it. I said I was disappointed in the actions that are the topic of this thread. What more would you like?
"I condemn them and reject them"...how is that?
And yeah - given the choice of Bush, McCain or Obama, Obama still OVERWHELMINGLY gets my vote, and support. The agenda, by about a million miles, is much more in tune w/ my philosophy & priorities.
evince
Truthmatters
I have a tiny smouldering hope that this is due to economic reasons.
Going after a sector of the economy legally while trying to resusitate the economy may be a consideration as well as trying to throughly asses the situation for a later date.
Its a tiny little flicker of a hope and will die pretty quickly.
Epicurus
Reasonable
Well I am not personally trying to advance that argument. Bush and Obama are very different in significant ways. People like yurt know that too, they're just trying to rub the similarities in your face.
I'm just pointing out that your usual response to these similarities is to say "That's just one thing!" but I feel that it loses its effectiveness after you say it about six or seven different issues.
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of course they are not identical...but their similiarities on big issues is humorous given how you criticized bush for those issues and said obama is different...well, he isn't that much different. all you have so far is that is spends money differently, whooopeee, seems his major policies are somewhat similar to bush
i think your list above is wrong as well....do you have specifics
I'm astounded that so far, in every case, he matches up with Bush on all the things I criticized Bush for. It's like he seeks out the stuff that made Bush popular and seeks to find out if he can get away with them and still keep a drugged-up following.
Education is a big issue with me. So is energy; so is healthcare. I opposed the Iraq invasion, but never supported some sort of overnight withdrawal; I can dig up posts from '07 & '08 that are consistent w/ this position. I supported Afghanistan when we invaded, and can see the merits of trying to finish the job, though I disagree with escalating our forces there.
On foreign policy, sometimes, you just have to clean up a mess, and there aren't "left" and "right" positions on that, or dramatic alternatives. Obama campaigned on basically escalating Afghanistan, and taking a fair amount of time to get out of Iraq; he's not all of a sudden "pulling a Bush" on either, as you keep trying to infer with these "gotcha" posts. If you want to show some kind of campaign hypocrisy because he increased the Iraq timeline by a few months, have at it.
As for his budget, it's all over the place online; do your own research.
You're exaggerating the position I have taken. When I disagree w/ Obama, I have no problem stating it. When he's doing something like Bush, I'll freely admit to it.
Still, you have got to be kidding by letting these ridiculous, broader comparisons to Bush slide. This Presidency is a complete left turn for the country and you know it. The right is absolultely apocalyptic about it, calling it tyrannical, organizing tea parties and constantly fear-mongering about our instant descent into socialism. They simply can't have it both ways. It can't be that, AND "oh, he's just like Bush....
"
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the very fact you think these are "gotcha" posts shows you know i am right to point out the similarities...
if was nothing, you wouldn't even think about gotcha....but you do and use that as if it is bad to point out similarities so you repeatedly use the word "gotcha" as if i am doing something wrong by pointing out similarities with bush.
too funny that you get so worked up about it
if was nothing, you wouldn't even think about gotcha....but you do and use that as if it is bad to point out similarities so you repeatedly use the word "gotcha" as if i am doing something wrong by pointing out similarities with bush.
too funny that you get so worked up about it