Obama Wants to Let Those Pesky Geezers Die

Ice Dancer said:
This is exactly where Obama's heath care plan will lead. We will have the government deciding poor people must suffer or die because the costs to make them well is too risky all at the cost of having another wasteful medicare type program.
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This could possibly also be melded with the identity politics agenda. Maybe white males who had "all the breaks" should be denied care. There's too many white people anyway.

Kill Whitey!
 
AssHatZombie said:
This could possibly also be melded with the identity politics agenda. Maybe white males who had "all the breaks" should be denied care. There's too many white people anyway.

Kill Whitey!
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The fact of the matter is that in looking at other countries who have government payed HC we can see the eventual pitfalls and Obama is such the ideologue that he dismisses the evidence.
 
Yurt said:
you have a point. there in lies the rub....we don't want socialization where the government controls the means and production of healthcare, but, we want the government to regulate it. what is your idea of the difference? solely the production?

as to tort reform, that is an insurance companies most excellent adventure and propaganda. studies have shown that tort claims represent a very small portion of the insurance costs for doctors. since maineman has repeatedly mentioned my profession, as he could never be what his daddy was....i am a lawyer, and i do some plaintiff tort law. i have a great friend down in LA that represents doctors and even he admits that med mal suits aren't as big as some would have us believe. its not absolute proof, just my two cents.
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You use the counter spin to tort reform. Yes settlements represent a small portion, but the increased costs passed onto hospitals and doctors for malpractice insurance represent much higher costs that are then passed onto patients and back charged back to insurance companies. Also, the difference in payments for services, medicines and treatments for medicare are reimbursed at a much lower rate and so those differences are also passed on via increased costs for all those items to the private insured. Medicare is rarely caluculated into the equasion for why we have such a huge financial burden with health insurance. I have named one reason why, but there exists many facets that have a direct impact on health care costs to the general public...hell in wasted tax dollars alone we could save billions a year.
 
uscitizen said:
Funny, I know several old people who got hip replacements on either Medicare or from the VA.
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Funny, when asked about this question from a reporter, Obama responded that he wouldn't with his proposed system, and the elderly woman would just have to take her pain medication. I guess this is part of the change that he was campaigning on. *shrug*
 
meme said:
By Matthew Vadum on 6.25.09 @ 2:36PM

In a rare moment of candor, President Obama explained to an audience how government-run healthcare would work in America.

According to the Los Angeles Times:

President Obama suggested at a town hall event Wednesday night that one way to shave medical costs is to stop expensive and ultimately futile procedures performed on people who are about to die and don't stand to gain from the extra care.

In a nationally televised event at the White House, Obama said families need better information so they don't unthinkingly approve "additional tests or additional drugs that the evidence shows is not necessarily going to improve care."

He added: "Maybe you're better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller."

Obama said he has personal familiarity with such a dilemma. His grandmother, Madelyn Dunham, was diagnosed with terminal cancer and given less than nine months to live, he said.

She fell and broke her hip, "and the question was, does she get hip replacement surgery, even though she was fragile enough they were not sure how long she would last?" [...]

So, old people: screw you. In the future Uncle Sam will put you on an ice floe and let you float away to your heavenly reward. It gives new meaning to the Latin phrase "Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori." (In English, How sweet and glorious it is to die for one's country.)

Medical decisions should be made by patients, their families, and their doctors, not by government bureaucrats, but that's ObamaCare for you.


from..http://spectator.org/blog/2009/06/25/obama-wants-to-let-those-pesky
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And why should old people go through strenuous surgery that's not going to increase the length or quality of their life? It's a huge problem in America, and the only reason doctors don't mention it is the massive financial incentive they have to do extra surgeries.
 
Like studies showing that treating prostrate cancer in old men with not many years left is more trouble than it is worth to them.

But our medical industry needs to get every last dime out of people before they die.
And then get their estate after they go for their unpaid bills.
 
Watermark said:
And why should old people go through strenuous surgery that's not going to increase the length or quality of their life? It's a huge problem in America, and the only reason doctors don't mention it is the massive financial incentive they have to do extra surgeries.
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uscitizen said:
Like studies showing that treating prostrate cancer in old men with not many years left is more trouble than it is worth to them.

But our medical industry needs to get every last dime out of people before they die.
And then get their estate after they go for their unpaid bills.
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Just as predicted: Liberals who have no medical education or direct knowledge of an individual patient making life and death decisions for that patient, and of course always coming down on the side of the State. My standard response to you assholes will now be: "take your pain medication and shut the fuck up". *shrug*
 
A reasonable DR informs the patient of their options and lets the patient decide. Instead many just pressure the patient for another procedure and more pain going thru it.
 
Southern Man said:
Just as predicted: Liberals who have no medical education or direct knowledge of an individual patient making life and death decisions for that patient, and of course always coming down on the side of the State. My standard response to you assholes will now be: "take your pain medication and shut the fuck up". *shrug*
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Don't you think HMOs and insurance companies are guilty of the same thing or worse? What about carriers that accept payment from clients until the client becomes a patient and then rescinds the policy based on a mistake in the application? Wouldn't you call that manipulation of a patient's outcome? What of those insurance companies that bonus employees for the degree to which they reject patient's applications for treatment, not manipulation?
I'll take the Feds, profit takes the heart out of the system. Beside, the government is more efficient than industry in administering the systems they oversee.
 
Ice Dancer said:
The fact of the matter is that in looking at other countries who have government payed HC we can see the eventual pitfalls and Obama is such the ideologue that he dismisses the evidence.
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If you exactly duplicate a system, you will have the same problems. If you continue with a system the exact same way, you will continue with the exact same problems.

We cannot continue the exact same way with our Healthcare, and the system Obama proposes (which has yet to be fully hashed out) does NOT follow the exact same system as others.
 
belme1201 said:
Don't you think HMOs and insurance companies are guilty of the same thing or worse? What about carriers that accept payment from clients until the client becomes a patient and then rescinds the policy based on a mistake in the application? Wouldn't you call that manipulation of a patient's outcome? What of those insurance companies that bonus employees for the degree to which they reject patient's applications for treatment, not manipulation?
I'll take the Feds, profit takes the heart out of the system. Beside, the government is more efficient than industry in administering the systems they oversee.
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With a private system the individual can choose another carrier and tell others how much their current provider sucks. Once the government monopolizes the industry we won't get that chance. The government is almost never as efficient as profit motivated people.
 
Southern Man said:
With a private system the individual can choose another carrier and tell others how much their current provider sucks. Once the government monopolizes the industry we won't get that chance. The government is almost never as efficient as profit motivated people.
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You can do this with employer based insurance? Which is how most individuals get their insurance. Excepting of course Vets, medicare and medicaid.
 
Southern Man said:
Yes you can by petitioning your employer, or selecting another employer.
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Yeah just select another employer. LOL Simple little thing that is.
Or petition the one you have, I am sure they will change everything just for you since you are so special :D
 
Whomever said:
Yeah just select another employer. LOL Simple little thing that is.
Or petition the one you have, I am sure they will change everything just for you since you are so special :D
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If you were a valuable employee then this wouldn't be a problem for you. *shrug*
 
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