Obama will not win the general if...

[Annie]

How much more clarity is required between the approach of Obama versus that of McCain on the issues of taxes?

Obama Proposes Tax Cuts for Middle Class and Elderly

WASHINGTON, Sept. 18 — Senator Barack Obama proposed a plan on Tuesday to provide at least $80 billion a year in tax cuts to middle-class workers, homeowners and retirees, saying if he was elected president he would “end the preferential treatment that’s built into our tax code.”

Mr. Obama said he would give a $500 tax credit to more than 150 million workers, create a tax credit for homeowners who do not itemize their deductions and eliminate income taxes for older taxpayers who make less than $50,000 a year. To pay for the plan, he said he would raise capital gains taxes on the wealthy, close corporate loopholes and abolish tax breaks that have saved hedge fund and private equity managers billions of dollars.

“If you talk about this in polite company, sooner or later you’ll get accused of waging class warfare,” Mr. Obama said. “As if it’s distasteful to point out that some C.E.O.’s make more in 10 minutes than a worker makes in 10 months.”

-- more at link

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/19/us/politics/19obama.html

What is evidenced is neo-post-republican fears about taxes, or "how my choice affects me personally" as opposed to the clear choices of what's best for the country. Those are not the kind of voters that Obama can count on to win the election.

He WILL win with voters who understand the crisis this nation is in and whose critical issues extend beyond self and who understand the real meaning of JFK's "Ask not" speech.

BAC, whether Obama or McCain, I'll feel way more comfortable to see them put their promises, suggestions, hopes on their sites, in writing. Ever notice how campaign rhetoric is left for dust?

 

[blackascoal]

BAC, whether Obama or McCain, I'll feel way more comfortable to see them put their promises, suggestions, hopes on their sites, in writing. Ever notice how campaign rhetoric is left for dust?

It's why we have to vote responsibily my sister.

We not only have to listen to what they say, but intelligently interpret who they are, what they stand for, and who is behind them.

Can a candidate really be working in the best interests of individuals when he surrounds himself with lobbyists?

 

[Topspin]

So blackpanther, no shit Obama favors workers who don't itemize and make less than $50,000. That shit sells to hard core political hacks.
Tell a family of 4 making $80,000 in the heartland his taxes are going up and he aint voting for it.

 

[blackascoal]

So blackpanther, no shit Obama favors workers who don't itemize and make less than $50,000. That shit sells to hard core political hacks.
Tell a family of 4 making $80,000 in the heartland his taxes are going up and he aint voting for it.

Show me where such a family will have their taxes raised .. when in fact, he proposes a second round of rebates giving that family up to $2000.00.

That family will have to consider a wide range of economic considerations that extend far beyond just taxes. 'Taxes" is the code-word used to trigger an emotional response in republicans .. but that family will have to consider healthcare, which may more adversly affect them than taxes.

That family will have to consider the cost and quality of education if they have school age children. There are a myriad of economic issues that are far more important than taxes.

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

including republican defeats in normally safe districts .. including etc, etc, etc ..

how many districts again? THIS IS NOT sufficient evidence that the ENTIRE electoral map has been changed. You are pulling shit out of thin air.

COULD, for the first time in history, the electoral map be wide open and completely different? Well, anything is possible. But there is NO sufficient evidence to suggest that at all.

 

[Annie]

It's why we have to vote responsibily my sister.

We not only have to listen to what they say, but intelligently interpret who they are, what they stand for, and who is behind them.

Can a candidate really be working in the best interests of individuals when he surrounds himself with lobbyists?

If they don't put it in writing, why should we believe it? Bac, can we trust anyone that surrounds themselves with sycophants? Whether it be Ayers, Johnson, Wright, or even Michelle, Obama brings baggage he needs to explain up front.

 

[TexasMeg]

If they don't put it in writing, why should we believe it? Bac, can we trust anyone that surrounds themselves with sycophants? Whether it be Ayers, Johnson, Wright, or even Michelle, Obama brings baggage he needs to explain up front.

YES!!!

 

[blackascoal]

If they don't put it in writing, why should we believe it? Bac, can we trust anyone that surrounds themselves with sycophants? Whether it be Ayers, Johnson, Wright, or even Michelle, Obama brings baggage he needs to explain up front.

Putting it in writing is no guarantee they will make it happen.

He has explained Wright, Ayers, and Johnson .. and he doesn't have to explain his wife.

Compare that to Phil Gramm whom McCain has never explained, nor has he explained his continued closeness to lobbyists of every strip which would in itself be real strange behavior of someone who considers himself a "maverick" given his role in the Keating Five.

The choice could not be more clear and if you're still wavering given all that is known, then you'll be voting for McCain .. because you're disposed to voting for McCain.

 

[TexasMeg]

The choice could not be more clear and if you're still wavering given all that is known, then you'll be voting for McCain .. because you're disposed to voting for McCain.

That seems rather harsh and shortsighted of you. To question and to waver and to research seems a logical and intelligent thing to do. It's those that blindly follow that concern me.

 

[Canceled.LTroll.29]

It's racist to ask Obama to explain anything.

It's racist to question Obama.

It's racist to criticize Obama.

It's racist to oppose Obama.

The only way to evade racism is to vote for Obama at least 3 times.

 

[blackascoal]

The choice could not be more clear and if you're still wavering given all that is known, then you'll be voting for McCain .. because you're disposed to voting for McCain.

That seems rather harsh and shortsighted of you. To question and to waver and to research seems a logical and intelligent thing to do. It's those that blindly follow that concern me.

I don't mean to be "short-sighted or harsh" at all .. nor does this have anything to do with being blind.

There is a stark and clear choice to make in this election. .. STARK and CLEAR.

There is almost no gray area in the diverse directions in the policies of Obama and McCain.

There is no serious disagreement about the absolute failure of the Bush economic policies .. which McCain not only wants to continue, but expand.

"Blind" would be not seeing the distinctions, not because you see them.

 

[blackascoal]

It's racist to ask Obama to explain anything.

It's racist to question Obama.

It's racist to criticize Obama.

It's racist to oppose Obama.

The only way to evade racism is to vote for Obama at least 3 times.

Typical right-wing "I'm a baby" non-response.

Thinking is just too hard.

 

[uscitizen]

take meg and myself for example there are alot of new potential dem voters who like obama. You all reached out to us.. Obama reached out to us. We helped him win the primary, we are helping him with the financing of his campaign. We are part of that huge increase of registered voters hes getting.

With this crew of independents you can win allot of elections.

The big question is can the left left take accept this new more conservative faction into their party or not.

The dem party has moved too far to the right as it is. But Obama can use the votes. Kinda like those republicans who voted for a conservative shrub

 

[Annie]

Putting it in writing is no guarantee they will make it happen.

He has explained Wright, Ayers, and Johnson .. and he doesn't have to explain his wife.

Compare that to Phil Gramm whom McCain has never explained, nor has he explained his continued closeness to lobbyists of every strip which would in itself be real strange behavior of someone who considers himself a "maverick" given his role in the Keating Five.

The choice could not be more clear and if you're still wavering given all that is known, then you'll be voting for McCain .. because you're disposed to voting for McCain.

Personally? I don't think Obama has explained anything. Some he's thrown under, some he's made excuses for. It seems if they become problematic, under the bus they'll go too.

Phil Gramm will be addressed, If not, the Dems will hit him hard.

 

[uscitizen]

The choice could not be more clear and if you're still wavering given all that is known, then you'll be voting for McCain .. because you're disposed to voting for McCain.

That seems rather harsh and shortsighted of you. To question and to waver and to research seems a logical and intelligent thing to do. It's those that blindly follow that concern me.

You seem to be what I call a reasonable Republican. we need those to offset the extreme dems. imho extremism in any form is wrong.

 

[Cancel7]

Explain his wife???? WTF?

Stop concern trolling Kathi. You wouldn't vote for a democratic president if the world was ending. You're not trying to decide or looking for information, you're a smear job queen who will throw any sleaze at Obama that you can find.

Newsflash: Normal people are struggling to pay their bills, trying to figure out how to get to the doctor when they have no, or bad, health insurance, dont know how they're going to afford gas to get to work next week because it's a an historic high and goes up everyday. You know how cares about the shit you sling here? Unabashed right wing pukes like Indisuptable and concern trolls like you.

Don't think you fooled me.

 

[Annie]

Explain his wife???? WTF?

Stop concern trolling Kathi. You wouldn't vote for a democratic president if the world was ending. You're not trying to decide or looking for information, you're a smear job queen who will throw any sleaze at Obama that you can find.

Newsflash: Normal people are struggling to pay their bills, trying to figure out how to get to the doctor when they have no, or bad, health insurance, dont know how they're going to afford gas to get to work next week because it's a an historic high and goes up everyday. You know how cares about the shit you sling here? Unabashed right wing pukes like Indisuptable and concern trolls like you.

Don't think you fooled me.

Read again, I agreed with 'not having to explain his wife.' f off.

 

[Chapdog]

Darla ur on a rampage today

 

[Damocles]

Read again, I agreed with 'not having to explain his wife.' f off.

It's called projection. It appears as if they all got their, "Let's project our assumptions onto them all day." card today when they rolled to find out how they were going to post....

 

[blackascoal]

Personally? I don't think Obama has explained anything. Some he's thrown under, some he's made excuses for. It seems if they become problematic, under the bus they'll go too.

Phil Gramm will be addressed, If not, the Dems will hit him hard.

I ask an honest question .. why isn't Phil Gramm being addressed right now?

"“The work of this Congress will be seen as a watershed where we turned away from an outmoded Depression-era approach to financial regulation and adopted a framework that will position our financial services industry to be world leaders into the new century,” Gramm said.

Watershed indeed. With the U.S. economy now battered by a tsunami of mortgage foreclosures, the $30-billion Bear Stearns Companies bailout and spiking food and energy prices, many congressional leaders and Wall Street analysts are questioning the wisdom of the radical deregulation launched by Gramm’s legislative package. Financial wizard Warren Buffett has labeled the risky new investment instruments Gramm unleashed “financial weapons of mass destruction.” They have fed the subprime mortgage crisis like an accelerant. While his distracted peers probably finalized their Christmas gift lists, Gramm created what Wall Street analysts now refer to as the “shadow banking system,” an industry that operates outside any government oversight, but, as witnessed by the Bear Stearns debacle, requiring rescue by taxpayers to avert a national economic catastrophe."

http://www.texasobserver.org/article.php?aid=2767

This is the man crafting McCain's economic policy.

I'm having a very difficult time understanding how Wright, Ayers, or whatever belongs on the same stage as the disastrous effects of Phil Gramm's "wisdom."

It makes no sense whatsoever .. no sense at all.

This nation is teetering on economic disaster and REV. WRIGHT is supposed to matter?

I meant no disrespect when I said you may be predisposed to vote for McCain .. but, surely you must believe that lobbyists act in the interests of everyday American people, and surely you must believe their presence all around McCain .. all his political career .. has no negative impact to the economy and more of the Bush economy is just what America needs.

else .. the distinctions are stark and very clear.