Of Hamas and Historical Ignorance

[Guno צְבִי]

In the wake of Hamas’ brutal assault on Israel, campuses across the United States have been home to rallies and demonstrations that are nominally pro-Palestinian but effectively celebrations of the terrorist group. Students at George Washington projected slogans such as “Glory to the Martyrs” on a campus building, a Cornell student was arrested for threatening to rape and kill Jewish students, and numerous campuses have been home to antisemitic assaults and vandalism.

The reaction has highlighted the degree to which we’ve left a generation of youth vulnerable to ludicrous doctrines, social media manipulation, and genuinely bad actors. The shocking support among young adults for Hamas’ assault draws on historic ignorance and crude postmodern notions of justice and victimhood, in which torture and kidnapping were rebranded a justifiable response to “colonial privilege.”

The problem starts well before students arrive at college. The average high school student knows little about American history, and even less about the world. A 2018 survey found that 41 percent of adult Americans couldn’t identify Auschwitz as a Nazi concentration camp.

Among millennials specifically, two-thirds couldn’t identify Auschwitz and 22 percent had never heard of the Holocaust. So much for “Never forget.”


https://www.yahoo.com/news/hamas-historical-ignorance-074500924.html

 

[Nordberg]

A huge part of the people that you think are antisemitic, just object to Israel slaughtering civilians in Gaza. The dead are in the 10,000 plus with over 2000 being children. That is not how you get peace. That is how you create a new generation of haters. Killing people's children creates deep enemies who will never forgive. Israel used the kids killed at a concert to retaliate and to destroy Gaza. Jews were horrified and incensed by the Hamas attack. Sadly, Gazans are horrified and incensed by Israel's attacks, one after another. This cannot end well for anyone.

 

[Cypress]

A huge part of the people that you think are antisemitic, just object to Israel slaughtering civilians in Gaza. The dead are in the 10,000 plus with over 2000 being children. That is not how you get peace. That is how you create a new generation of haters. Killing people's children creates deep enemies who will never forgive. Israel used the kids killed at a concert to retaliate and to destroy Gaza. Jews were horrified and incensed by the Hamas attack. Sadly, Gazans are horrified and incensed by Israel's attacks, one after another. This cannot end well for anyone.

Innocent loss of life is tragic on all counts.

It would be nice if Hamas would come out on the field of battle and fight the IDF mano a mano. But Hamas is using civilians and hospitals as human shields, so I don't think it's quite fair to blame all the deaths in Gaza on IDF.

Even the supposedly progressive European Union has called out Hamas for using civilians and hospitals as human shields.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

 

[Nordberg]

Innocent loss of life is tragic on all counts.

It would be nice if Hamas would come out on the field of battle and fight the IDF mano a mano. But Hamas is using civilians and hospitals as human shields, so I don't think it's quite fair to blame all the deaths in Gaza on IDF.

Even the supposedly progressive European Union has called out Hamas for using civilians and hospitals as human shields.

Mano-mano? They are greatly outnumbered. They are not trying to defeat the Israel army. They are trying to rouse others into fighting on their side.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Mano-mano? They are greatly outnumbered. They are not trying to defeat the Israel army. They are trying to rouse others into fighting on their side.

Well, I guess Hamas is truly and totally fucked then.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Here's the thing: NO ONE IN THE MEDIA, BE THEY LEFT, MIDDLE OR RIGHT OR THE EXTREMES THEREOF MENTIONS THE FACT THAT THERE IS NO "BATTLEFIELD" THAT HAMAS AND THE IDF/ARMY CAN ENGAGE ON! HAMAS LIVES IN THE GHETTO AREAS THAT WAS CREATED BY ISRAEL! THEY ARE PART OF THE CITIZENRY. SO ALL THIS "They're using innocent civilians as shields" is bogus.

Two wrongs don't make a right. And as I've said time after time, war is done by the arrogant, the desperate and the foolish.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Here's the thing: NO ONE IN THE MEDIA, BE THEY LEFT, MIDDLE OR RIGHT OR THE EXTREMES THEREOF MENTIONS THE FACT THAT THERE IS NO "BATTLEFIELD" THAT HAMAS AND THE IDF/ARMY CAN ENGAGE ON! HAMAS LIVES IN THE GHETTO AREAS THAT WAS CREATED BY ISRAEL! THEY ARE PART OF THE CITIZENRY. SO ALL THIS "They're using innocent civilians as shields" is bogus.

Two wrongs don't make a right. And as I've said time after time, war is done by the arrogant, the desperate and the foolish.

Are you that stupid? Gaza city IS the battlefield because Hamas had their shot at taking the war they started into Israeli territory and failed. So, Hamas now has to fight--and lose--the war they started on their home turf to the detriment of the people they supposedly governed.

 

[Nordberg]

Well, I guess Hamas is truly and totally fucked then.

You better hope so. The ME countries are not happy with the over-done retribution of Israel. If they did jump in, it could inflame the Middle East and maybe spread further.
Hamas is supposed to have a couple hundred miles of tunnel in Gaza. They could be long gone.

 

[IBDaMann]

In the wake of Hamas’ brutal assault on Israel, campuses across the United States have been home to rallies and demonstrations that are nominally pro-Palestinian but effectively celebrations of the terrorist group.

I explained this. Israel has gone Nazi and has become the 4th Reich. The IDF is committing genocide of innocent civilian Arab Semites while the world watches. Hamas is the only organization that will take any action to try to stop Israel from exterminating the Semites that they HATE. Of course Hamas will be seen as heroes in this light, compliments of Nazi Israel.

... numerous campuses have been home to antisemitic assaults and vandalism.

There were no antisemitic assaults and vandalism. The victims of the Jewish Semite assault are Arab Semites. Neither group are self-loathers.

... notions of justice and victimhood, in which torture and kidnapping were rebranded a justifiable response to “colonial privilege.”

... notions of justice and victimhood, in which wholesale genocide of civilian Arab Semite noncombatants were rebranded as "Israel's right."

A 2018 survey found that 41 percent of adult Americans couldn’t identify Auschwitz as a Nazi concentration camp.

Casual questioning found that more than 80% of Americans don't know how many thousands of innocent Arab Semite children were slaughtered by the IDF in October, nor how many innocent Arab Semite women. Casual questioning revealed that 90% of Amercians think that the word "semitic" means "Jewish" and not "of Semites," and are unaware that Arabs are Semites who are not antisemitic, no matter how much they might HATE Jews in particular.

Among millennials specifically, two-thirds couldn’t identify Auschwitz and 22 percent had never heard of the Holocaust. So much for “Never forget.”

Hey, as long as they have a basic understanding of what happened at Dachau, they're fine. Dachau is where it all began. All Jews should be familiar with the temple monument at Dachau.

 

[RB 60]

Mano-mano? They are greatly outnumbered. They are not trying to defeat the Israel army. They are trying to rouse others into fighting on their side.

They have the American college campuses and democrats supporting them. I don't see those wimps joining the fight, though....

 

[IBDaMann]

Are you that stupid? Gaza city IS the battlefield because Hamas had their shot at taking the war they started into Israeli territory and failed. So, Hamas now has to fight--and lose--the war they started on their home turf to the detriment of the people they supposedly governed.

Are you that stupid? Gaza city IS the battlefield because Israel simply wants to exterminate the Arab Semite civilians who never attacked Israel. Iran attacked Israel, so Israel attacked ... innocent women and children, killing thousands of them. If you were alive during Nazi Germany, you probably would have eagerly supported Hitler tossing Jews into ovens and gas chambers under the justification that Germany has a right to defend itself. You logic is no different. Israel is openly perpetrating genocide and you excuse it. You delude yourself into thinking that killing Arab Semites and Muslims who never attacked Israel is somehow perfectly fine, actions that are war crimes everywhere and punishable by hanging. To do this, you lock yourself into a death-struggle to deny that Iran is the responsible party for the attack on Israel. If you were to admit that Iran was behind the attack, you wouldn't as easily be able to justify genocide against women and children who committed no crime. The IDF killed them and no one else is responsible for their deaths.

You employ dishonesty to engage in Goebbles-style propaganda to excuse genocide, war crimes and other atrocities. I hope you are proud of yourself.

 

[RB 60]

Are you that stupid? Gaza city IS the battlefield because Israel simply wants to exterminate the Arab Semite civilians who never attacked Israel. Iran attacked Israel, so Israel attacked ... innocent women and children, killing thousands of them. If you were alive during Nazi Germany, you probably would have eagerly supported Hitler tossing Jews into ovens and gas chambers under the justification that Germany has a right to defend itself. You logic is no different. Israel is openly perpetrating genocide and you excuse it. You delude yourself into thinking that killing Arab Semites and Muslims who never attacked Israel is somehow perfectly fine, actions that are war crimes everywhere and punishable by hanging. To do this, you lock yourself into a death-struggle to deny that Iran is the responsible party for the attack on Israel. If you were to admit that Iran was behind the attack, you wouldn't as easily be able to justify genocide against women and children who committed no crime. The IDF killed them and no one else is responsible for their deaths.

You employ dishonesty to engage in Goebbles-style propaganda to excuse genocide, war crimes and other atrocities. I hope you are proud of yourself.

You seem to excuse the fact that Hamas (unprovoked) sent rockets into a peaceful music festival. When the IDF saw what Hamas did to innocent families in their own homes, it's not hard to question why hate and revenge set in.

 

[Walt]

You seem to excuse the fact that Hamas (unprovoked) sent rockets into a peaceful music festival. When the IDF saw what Hamas did to innocent families in their own homes, it's not hard to question why hate and revenge set in.

Uhm... They sent armed soldiers, not rockets. They broke through the wall, like it was not even there, and attacked civilians. For some reason, Netanyahu did not have any forces in the area to protect the civilians. It got to the point that Israeli liberal veterans started organizing themselves into ad hoc military units to push Hamas back.

In the past, Hamas launched rockets, this time it was a land attack.

 

[RB 60]

Uhm... They sent armed soldiers, not rockets. They broke through the wall, like it was not even there, and attacked civilians. For some reason, Netanyahu did not have any forces in the area to protect the civilians. It got to the point that Israeli liberal veterans started organizing themselves into ad hoc military units to push Hamas back.

In the past, Hamas launched rockets, this time it was a land attack.

You unquestionably support Hamas and their unprovoked attack on Jewish civilians.

No, they had no defense against the land march and killing innocent people in their
homes. That's why America has our 2nd. Amendment. We armed civilians will protect
wimps like you, the same jackasses (democrats) who want to ultimately rescind it.


FJB

 

[T. A. Gardner]

You better hope so. The ME countries are not happy with the over-done retribution of Israel. If they did jump in, it could inflame the Middle East and maybe spread further.
Hamas is supposed to have a couple hundred miles of tunnel in Gaza. They could be long gone.

My bet is most of them don't give a fuck. The other Arab countries may pay lip service to the Palestinian cause, but you don't see them actively engaging in any of the shit the Palestinians start. Instead they hand wring on the sidelines. If Gaza were wiped off the planet, my bet is the other Arab nations would cry how awful that is then go on about their business as if it never happened.

The ones next to Israel have pretty much had their fill of trying to use war on Israel as a strategy. They figured out it won't fucking work and have given up trying that. The Palestinians simply aren't as smart.

 

[IBDaMann]

You seem to excuse the fact that Hamas (unprovoked) sent rockets into a peaceful music festival.

Nope. Where have I ever expressed anything other than condemnation for the attacks on Israel? My position is, and always has been, that it is wrong to kill living humans who have not committed any crime. If I recall, you are the one who delights in that, insisting that killing others is a matter of "choice" in which no one should interfere, especially if the person so choosing decides to hire a third party to do the killing and fills out all the necessary paperwork. On that note, I'm sure that Hamas filled out all the necessary paperwork to launch the Ayatollah's attack on Israel, so why are you griping? My position holds that Hamas' paperwork is irrelevant, that the killing of living humans who have not committed any crime is simply wrong. Period.

When the IDF saw what [Iran] did to innocent families in their own homes, it's not hard to question why [Jewish antisemitism against Arab Semites prevailed over any desire for Justice against the party responsible for the attack].

I get it. This is why Israel and the IDF should answer for every single war crime and every single other atrocity they commit. Every single one. I would rather that good people speak up now before Israel starts tossing Arab Semites into ovens and gas chambers while Team Israel in the US and elsewhere cheer with thunderous applause.

 

[QP!]

A huge part of the people that you think are antisemitic, just object to Israel slaughtering civilians in Gaza. The dead are in the 10,000 plus with over 2000 being children. That is not how you get peace. That is how you create a new generation of haters. Killing people's children creates deep enemies who will never forgive. Israel used the kids killed at a concert to retaliate and to destroy Gaza. Jews were horrified and incensed by the Hamas attack. Sadly, Gazans are horrified and incensed by Israel's attacks, one after another. This cannot end well for anyone.

While what you say is certainly true i would add to it, that it has always been true.

Taking on Hitler or Japan in WW2 was not possible without mass civilian casualties.


I want to speak to the tactic ONLY and get away from this being a Hamas/Palestine/Israel or any specific party issue so we can assess the TACTIC without bringing in emotion.

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There are few wars (maybe none), that involve any urban settings where that is not true which makes is tough argument against fighting back against aggressors.

The issue the non aggressors would be handing the aggressors a check mate move that all aggressors would then incorporate as their defacto go to move. Attack from heavily populated urban areas and then say 'check mate, victims, you have no ability to respond'.

 

[RB 60]

Nope. Where have I ever expressed anything other than condemnation for the attacks on Israel? My position is, and always has been, that it is wrong to kill living humans who have not committed any crime. If I recall, you are the one who delights in that, insisting that killing others is a matter of "choice" in which no one should interfere, especially if the person so choosing decides to hire a third party to do the killing and fills out all the necessary paperwork. On that note, I'm sure that Hamas filled out all the necessary paperwork to launch the Ayatollah's attack on Israel, so why are you griping? My position holds that Hamas' paperwork is irrelevant, that the killing of living humans who have not committed any crime is simply wrong. Period.


I get it. This is why Israel and the IDF should answer for every single war crime and every single other atrocity they commit. Every single one. I would rather that good people speak up now before Israel starts tossing Arab Semites into ovens and gas chambers while Team Israel in the US and elsewhere cheer with thunderous applause.

Psychobabble. You changed my post. Are you taking lessons from Dutch Dickhead?

 

[IBDaMann]

Taking on Hitler or Japan in WW2 was not possible without mass civilian casualties.

You can't simply allow this here as somehow being inevitable ....

I want to speak to the tactic ONLY

... and somehow not accept guerilla warfare here as being inevitable here.

Whenever one side in a conflict is severely outclassed and overpowered, it has only two options: 1. cease and desist, or 2. begin engaging in guerilla warfare. If the impetus is sufficient, option #2 will be the inevitable result. The United States exists today because its execution of guerilla warfare (which was all it could muster in the American Revolution) was sufficient to stave off the British troops. The Viet Cong could not be defeated by the overpowering American military. Afghans may die, but they simply won't die.

The point is that when guerilla warfare is the only option, it becomes inevitable.

The issue the non aggressors would be handing the aggressors a check mate move that all aggressors would then incorporate as their defacto go to move.

This is obviously a false predicate. The IDF could have cleared any buildings of civilians in which they had Hamas terrorists trapped, but that would have involved work that they don't like to expend on Arab Semites that they HATE, and in many cases, the IDF weren't exactly certain that there were any Hamas terrorists in the buildings and they wanted to seize the opportunity to kill some more sub-human Arab Semites and destroy property with impunity ... and have a good, hearty laugh over it. They know that the US will be funding replacements for any missiles the IDF fires so let the video game begin! They might not get another chance at this kind of fun.