Olberman With Sobering Words About Prop 8

Chapdog said:
Thats the way it works. Its not perfect but the alternative is for us not to bother asking questions or voting. I dont agree with the result but I wouldnt agree with the results if the pot question in MA didnt pass or the dog racing ban didnt pass either.
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It doesn't matter what the majority says. They can't vote to take away our freedoms just because they're ignorant fucks.
 
What strikes me most is that the same ugliness that voted to deny children a loving home with people to care for them and give them everything that a child needs to succede in life is the exact same ugliness that voted to deny same sex couples the right to marry. People who voted this way have a darkness inside them. One that says I know better than you who should be the recipient of caring and of love, I know better. My religious belief makes me a better JUDGE of what is right and what is wrong. I can't believe that people who claim to follow Christ are the same ones that can be so hateful when it comes to people that just want to share their love and affection with another. Be a child, or spouse. Someday, this will change, as the younger generations become able to vote and able to use their voice to change these things, they will look back at this generation and wonder how a group so ugly could exist.
 
Watermark said:
No, it is not. Fuck the majority. They can't take away my freedoms.

That's why it's foolish to have a system of initiatives. The worst legislation in America imaginable have come out of initiatives.
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Legislation I disagree with comes out of initiatives!!!

*Insert Hitler referendum comparison here*
 
Socrtease said:
What strikes me most is that the same ugliness that voted to deny children a loving home with people to care for them and give them everything that a child needs to succede in life is the exact same ugliness that voted to deny same sex couples the right to marry. People who voted this way have a darkness inside them. One that says I know better than you who should be the recipient of caring and of love, I know better. My religious belief makes me a better JUDGE of what is right and what is wrong. I can't believe that people who claim to follow Christ are the same ones that can be so hateful when it comes to people that just want to share their love and affection with another. Be a child, or spouse. Someday, this will change, as the younger generations become able to vote and able to use their voice to change these things, they will look back at this generation and wonder how a group so ugly could exist.
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They call themselves the moral majority, but these two propositions were the most immoral thing to happen in America in a long time.
 
Epicurus said:
Legislation I disagree with comes out of initiatives!!!

*Insert Hitler referendum comparison here*
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Initiatives produce awful legislation because a ballot question isn't exactly the kind of debate a law deserves. Direct democracy is a fail, just like our founders said it would be.
 
Yeah it's sort of like why I didn't watch the debates. I'm not an undecided voter, it's a waste of time.

I did agree strongly with the first two minutes though.
 
Kieth Olbermann is mentally ill... I give him 2 more years before he hangs himself ... his track record supports this...
 
Watermark said:
Initiatives produce awful legislation because a ballot question isn't exactly the kind of debate a law deserves. Direct democracy is a fail, just like our founders said it would be.
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With this I agree. Prop 8 and the election in Arkansas are prime examples of the tyranny of mob rule.
 
Chapdog said:
Majority has spoken. doenst matter if you agree with it or not. That's the way it works. BTW had to turn it off because it was so annoying listening to his crying over it and id vote for gay marriage.

hes like the legislature in MA saying: well the voters voted to decriminalize pot but its not right.. they dont know what they are voting for.. we should ignore it and do what we want.
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Me thinks you forget that we live in a Republic in which people have rights which are protected against the tyranny of the majority. In which case it does not matter what the majority of people or their elected representatives think. Rights are rights.
 
froggie said:
Do I dare ask why?
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Because I don't think it should matter to me whether other people get married.

The only thing that matters to me is if they are adults and consenting, other than that it is absolutely none of my business how they live their lives. I also think that an attempt to define marriage using the strict code of religion is a violation of the 1st Amendment. It seems to be a law respecting religion and establishing religion as the defining limit of law.... bad precedent.

See how a strict reading of the constitution might get Religious Reactionaries in a bunch?
 
Watermark said:
Which part of the government did you want to get rid of Chap?

I think getting rid of the police department might begin to make up the 70% shortfall that getting rid of the income tax would create in the areas that Mass. is constitutionally able to cut.

Maybe they just had common fucking sense, instead of leaving in this fairytaleland guys you anti-tax freaks live in where everything is free and easy?
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shut up idiot. You are completely ignorant of massachusetts politics, the way our state pisses money away, and the corruption we have in our state government.

You can still have police without a state income tax - IDIOT. There are quite a few states that don't have an income tax and do JUST FINE.

And even if we are to stipulate that property taxes would go up, that would be decided on a town by town basis, we would at least have much more direct control in deciding how our money is taken and where it's spent.
 
Damocles said:
Because I don't think it should matter to me whether other people get married.

The only thing that matters to me is if they are adults and consenting, other than that it is absolutely none of my business how they live their lives. I also think that an attempt to define marriage using the strict code of religion is a violation of the 1st Amendment. It seems to be a law respecting religion and establishing religion as the defining limit of law.... bad precedent.

See how a strict reading of the constitution might get Religious Reactionaries in a bunch?
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thanks, nice reply.
 
froggie said:
thanks, nice reply.
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Not a problem. I like questions like this. Sometimes it gets me to rethink things too. Not in this case. I don't think that government should be mucking around in the bedrooms of consenting adults or deciding who has a right to visit me in the hospital. It should damned well be anybody I choose, even if it is "icky" to somebody else.
 
With civil unions, gays can have all the same legal rights, and they can still live together, be together and love each other.

Black people weren't giving civil unions. I'm sorry I know many people have their hearts in the right place but it is NOT an apt analogy to compare gay people TODAY to black people 40 years ago. IT'S NOT THE SAME.

I want to make it very clear - I would not have voted for prop 8. I would have voted against it. I have no problem with gay marriage.

But at least in this circumstance - Did they lose anything more than the ability to legally call themselves married? Who the fuck cares about a word? Ok the state doesn't call you married . .. call yourself married. I just don't get why it's worth crying over if you simply aren't CALLED something.

If you lost rights, that's a different issue, and I'm with you all the way.

But both sides - if it's just a word we are talking about.. who the fuck cares. seriously.
 
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