Once you eliminate the impossible...

hypGnosis said:
PostmodernProphet, I wasn't asking what “your” page was, I am looking to see where we might have common ground, perhaps if you and I might agree on something ... anything.

Do you agree that the following is a valid statement?

“The Big Bang theory is the prevailing cosmological model for the universe from the earliest known period ...”
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I agree that the Big Bang is the commonly known terminology for that event which prevailing scientific thought says marks the beginning of our universe......
 
Frank Apisa said:
I'm going to intrude, because I see what may be an issue with the question you asked PP...and it impact on the general discussion.

I, personally, would agree with this revision of your comment:

“The Big Bang theory is the prevailing cosmological model for (what we humans call) the universe from the earliest known period ...”

Most scientists aver that we do not know what, if anything, came before the Big Bang...and that we do not know if what we consider the universe...actually is the universe.

There could be a LOT more involved here now...and prior to the Big Bang.
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I agree that most scientists agree that we do not know what, if anything came before the Big Bang........however, I would say none of them would say that what there was before the Big Bang was THIS universe......therefore THIS universe began with the Big Bang.......I also have no objection to adding "what we humans call", because I don't expect that's what God calls it......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
sorry.....despite the fact you believe otherwise, as gnostic puts it, "The Big Bang theory is the prevailing cosmological model for the universe from the earliest known period".....
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For the thing we humans currently call "the universe."

Just 100 years ago...that "the universe" was supposedly on our galaxy...only the stars we could see with our eyes and our telescopes.

Now...it is larger by hundreds of billions on other galaxies.

No reputable scientists would agree with the proposition as worded.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I agree that most scientists agree that we do not know what, if anything came before the Big Bang........however, I would say none of them would say that what there was before the Big Bang was THIS universe......therefore THIS universe began with the Big Bang.......I also have no objection to adding "what we humans call", because I don't expect that's what God calls it......
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God who?
 
Frank Apisa said:
Bullshit. It is the first law of theology...and a minor law of philosophy.

Here is what Bertrand Russell had to say about the "law of cause and effect."

All philosophers, of every school, imagine that causation is one of the fundamental axioms or postulates of science, yet, oddly enough, in advanced sciences such as gravitational astronomy, the word “cause” never occurs. … The law of causality, I believe, like much that passes muster among philosophers, is a relic of a bygone age, surviving, like the monarchy, only because it is erroneously supposed to do no harm.




Yeah, that IS what you said. But "science" exists very well in the quantum world WITHOUT that particular law.





If you knew anything about science...you would stop trying to use science to prove that there is a "creator" for something you are unable even to prove to be a "creation."

Ontological arguments for the existence of gods suck...and your ontological argument sucks greater than a black hole.





Okay...give us a list of everyone you know who created a universe...and how they went about doing it.





Okay...so...let's move on to those universes that have been created. How many are there...how large are they?



Science very seldom deals with what is impossible...because one of the mainstays of science is that it never knows when something is going to come along to show a previously thought law...was wrong.

All science tries to do is to figure out which is the more probable answer to an issue. It very seldom proves anything...just creates a likelihood.

You know almost nothing about science...and are attempting to use it to bolster a blind guess you have about the true nature of the REALITY of existence.

And, it happens you are doing a terrible job of it.



Like I told you, I do not blither. And having you call me an idiot is like having Chris Christie call me fat!
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You know what? It doesn't matter what you think. God is real. You will meet Him someday. I do not envy you the experience. You KNOW there is a God, yet you reject Him, because you love your sin more than your Creator. The sin of pride. You are to proud to humble yourself before God and ask Him to forgive you. You've been warned. You will have no excuse. As long as you're still breathing, there is hope for you. I suggest you look for God. He told us that He reveals Himself to those who diligently seek Him. Obviously, you are not looking. Might want to start. There have been many, like yourself, who have found God. It changed their lives for the better. Quit struggling and accept Jesus as your Savior. You won't regret it.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I agree that the Big Bang is the commonly known terminology for that event which prevailing scientific thought says marks the beginning of our universe......
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The question is who or what caused that big bang. How do we explain the universal physical constants that shape our universe and make life possible. They are immaterial, yet they affect the material. Where did they come from? They indicate intelligent design. No honest person can deny it. I believe that a belief in God has little to do with evidence. The evidence is abundant. Yet most people reject it because of stubborn pride. They refuse to accept the fact that they aren't good enough in God's eyes. They wish to continue in their sin and be praised for it. They'll learn. Every single one of them. But for most, it will be too late.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
I agree that the Big Bang is the commonly known terminology for that event which prevailing scientific thought says marks the beginning of our universe......
Click to expand...

Alright!

and howzabout the following definition of the Big Bang?

“The model [Big Bang] describes how the universe expanded from a very high-density and high-temperature state, and offers a comprehensive explanation for a broad range of phenomena, including the abundance of light elements, the cosmic microwave background (CMB), large scale structure and Hubble's law. “

Although the above may be lacking in some degree, at least as far as it defines the model of the Big Bang Theory, do you deem it valid ?
 
PostmodernProphet said:
neither actually.....a scientific theory needs to be subject to testing.......if you want to argue that human beings have a common ancestor with moss you will need to come up with a method of testing your scientific theory.....
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Has anyone claimed humans had a moss ancestor?
 
The Ugly Truth said:
You know what? It doesn't matter what you think. God is real. You will meet Him someday. I do not envy you the experience. You KNOW there is a God, yet you reject Him, because you love your sin more than your Creator. The sin of pride. You are to proud to humble yourself before God and ask Him to forgive you. You've been warned. You will have no excuse. As long as you're still breathing, there is hope for you. I suggest you look for God. He told us that He reveals Himself to those who diligently seek Him.
Click to expand...

Same thing goes with Zeus. If you look for him diligently enough...you will find him.

Obviously, you are not looking. Might want to start. There have been many, like yourself, who have found God. It changed their lives for the better. Quit struggling and accept Jesus as your Savior. You won't regret it.
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Quite a departure from your "science tell us" stuff, Ugly...a welcome one!

I accept that you are trying to "save" me from what you think will be a horrible fate if I do not accept your god...and I appreciate that. I always thank people who "pray" for me or for my "soul"...and I mean those thanks sincerely. I accept that you are sincere.

I had a time in my life where I was religious. As an adult, I served Mass in St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican. That is taking one's religion a pretty decent step.

But at some point, I realized that I could not KNOW the things I was told were "truths"...and I realized the only thing I could do was to make a guess on the issue.

I've decided not to guess...and if there is a god that would condemn me for being honest with myself...so be it. I would respect any GOD that exists enough never to think that way about IT.

Thanks again for your considerations.

Here is where I am now on the issue:

I do not know if gods exist or not;
I see no reason to suspect gods CANNOT EXIST...that the existence of gods is impossible;
I see no reason to suspect that gods MUST EXIST...that gods are needed to explain existence;
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction...

...so I don't.

If you see something wrong with that...talk to me about it.
 
The Ugly Truth said:
You know what? It doesn't matter what you think. God is real. You will meet Him someday. I do not envy you the experience. You KNOW there is a God, yet you reject Him, because you love your sin more than your Creator. The sin of pride. You are to proud to humble yourself before God and ask Him to forgive you. You've been warned. You will have no excuse. As long as you're still breathing, there is hope for you. I suggest you look for God. He told us that He reveals Himself to those who diligently seek Him. Obviously, you are not looking. Might want to start. There have been many, like yourself, who have found God. It changed their lives for the better. Quit struggling and accept Jesus as your Savior. You won't regret it.
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Ah .. now you are preaching. There are Christians who read the Bible as didactic literature NOT as science and history.
 
Frank Apisa said:
For the thing we humans currently call "the universe."

Just 100 years ago...that "the universe" was supposedly on our galaxy...only the stars we could see with our eyes and our telescopes.

Now...it is larger by hundreds of billions on other galaxies.

No reputable scientists would agree with the proposition as worded.
Click to expand...

no....."our universe" has always meant the same thing.......everything there is......
 
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ne...d/news-story/884d636cce2f3f8cc2075e21a79ba44c





THE brain of every human being, from believers to atheists, has been revealed to contain at least three "god spots", all linked to religious beliefs and thoughts.
A team of US researchers has obtained strong evidence that religiosity is managed by the same parts of the brain that are used every day to interpret other people's moods and intentions and to analyse experiences.
Moreover, the spots exist in the brains of ordinary people, not just those whose extraordinary religious experiences have been triggered by brain injury or neurological conditions like epilepsy.
Scientists, philosophers and theologians have long argued about whether religious belief is a biological or a sociological phenomenon. Britain's controversial evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins contends that religion is essentially a cultural virus, spread from brain to brain.
Others argue that it arises from the structure of the brain itself.
The new findings by researchers at the US National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland -- obtained by non-invasive brain scans of 26 Americans -- have gone far to resolving the debate.
Jordan Grafman and his colleagues wrote in the US journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences that the evolution of the brain networks that handle religious thoughts "was likely driven by their primary roles in social (thinking), language and logical reasoning".
According to University of NSW evolutionary biologist Rob Brooks, the study shows that religion taps into existing parts of the brain that evolved to handle complex social interactions.
"It exploits existing parts of our brain," Associate Professor Brooks suggested.
He agreed with the US team that, regardless of whether god existed, the work showed that religious beliefs did exist and could be studied rigorously.
Dr Grafman's group broke down religious belief into three "psychological" components: god's perceived emotion, god's involvement with the world and doctrinal, or knowledge, aspects of religion.
They then used functional magnetic resonance imaging to watch what went on in the brains of volunteers as they evaluated statements about religious belief.
The scans revealed that the volunteers' brains evaluated the actions of other people in the same way they contemplated god's mood and involvement with humanity.
The imaging also pinpointed an association between a person's previous religious teachings and a part of the brain involved in memory and speech.
 
"The question is who or what caused the big bang...
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The Ugly Truth, perhaps we can advance the discussion to that point if we can, at the very least, establish a common ground about our discussion.

How about you? Are we talking about a specific “... commonly known terminology...” and that that definition for that term, insofar as I've presented it, is valid?
 
organized religion wants you to give them your children early so they can develop the synapeses to make you a god believer foir life


or a Vishnu believer

or a Ra believer

or a allah believer


or a Kim believer
 
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