Pakistani troops reportedly fire on US helicopters

Darla said:
That's what bac tells me any time I bring up the 2000 election.
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Wow. For a fairly reasonable guy he believes some out-there shit.

He thinks Bush was behind 9/11 too right? I remember when 9/11 happened I was like 13 and I thought about that too. So don't worry bac and desh, the 13 yr old version of me agrees with you so you're in good company. For your entertainment bac, I was also a self-proclaimed Communist at 13, so we would have gotten along great.
 
Darla said:
Yeah, I think that is so. Bac, we are pretty much fucked now, no matter what happens. Don’t pretend that voting third party is going to do anything ok? Let’s face it – it’s too late. This ship is going down, it’s over.
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I absolutely agree the ship is going down .. but I look forward to it for out of chaos begins a new direction.

Voting 3rd party is a step towards a better future where Americans actually choose their leaders.
 
Epicurus said:
Wow. For a fairly reasonable guy he believes some out-there shit.

He thinks Bush was behind 9/11 too right? I remember when 9/11 happened I was like 13 and I thought about that too. So don't worry bac and desh, the 13 yr old version of me agrees with you so you're in good company. For your entertainment bac, I was also a self-proclaimed Communist at 13, so we would have gotten along great.
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For a seemingly intelligent guy you sure exhibit the lemming gene far more than you should.

I don't think Bush has the brains to be behind much of anything, but only a lemming would believe this country hasn't staged and allowed events to happen that cost human life .. and only a moron would believe the 9/11 story.
 
blackascoal said:
I absolutely agree the ship is going down .. but I look forward to it for out of chaos begins a new direction.

Voting 3rd party is a step towards a better future where Americans actually choose their leaders.
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Well, I pretty much disagree. Though I would agree that there is a small chance of an actual revolution resulting from this destruction, it is far more likely we simply turn into a third world nation, with the living standards, poverty, sickness, violence, rape, murder, stats to match.

I want out.
 
Epicurus said:
What is your best guess about what happened on 9/11?
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I know this is for bac, but I just want to say mine anyway.

I think they knew something was coming, and they let it happen. The PAC fuckers are on record, pre 9/11 as stating they'd need a pearl harbor to institute their plans. I mean, that's not a conspiracy, that's a fact.

Add to that the adminstrations' behavior during the summer of 01, including, but far from limited to, their reaction to the warning that "Bin ladin determined to strike within the US", and I don't even know how another conclusion is very likely.

But I don't think they participated in or planned it. I do think Al Queda did it. But they let it happen, and that's a death penality offense in my opinion.
 
blackascoal said:
For a seemingly intelligent guy you sure exhibit the lemming gene far more than you should.

I don't think Bush has the brains to be behind much of anything, but only a lemming would believe this country hasn't staged and allowed events to happen that cost human life .. and only a moron would believe the 9/11 story.
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By the way bac, everyone has at least a few positions or beliefs not shared by the mainstream. I personally believe that the Great Depression was more a failure of government intervention in the economy than of laissez-faire. Like you, I can make a logical argument to support my case for it, but I still am still aware that I am in the minority in viewing it that way.
 
Watermark said:
About 40% of the people who voted for Nader said they would have voted for Gore from exit polls, and 33% said they would have voted for Bush (not exact numbers, I pulled them from memory). Assuming that the threat of all the others to not vote if he wasn't on the ballot turned out to be true (which I doubt, it's more like that most of the people who voted that way were leftists trying to justify not going for Gore), then the Naderites still could have won the election for Gore. Think about how different a place America would be right now with Gore as president. It's a little bit chilling.
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Those who voted for Nader had no obligation to vote for Gore just as they had no obligation to vote for Bush.

How about blaming the people in Gore's own state .. if only they would have voted for Gore ..

Or how about all the people who chose not to vote at all because they knew the system is corrupt .. if only they had voted for Gore

... or how about blaming martians who could have morphed into humans .. if only they had voted for Gore

but whatever you do, don't blame Gore for running away from Clinton's success ..or for selecting JOE FUCKING LIEBERMAN as his running mate .. or for not winning his own state .. or for being a pussy and not fighting for Florida or demanding a recount of the entire state

.. oh yeah .. in 2004 whatever you do don't blame the Democratic Party for allowing republicans to be the sole propreitor of the vote .. martians could have saved them.

If only the martians would do as they're told perhaps democrats could win national elections
 
Darla said:
I know this is for bac, but I just want to say mine anyway.

I think they knew something was coming, and they let it happen. The PAC fuckers are on record, pre 9/11 as stating they'd need a pearl harbor to institute their plans. I mean, that's not a conspiracy, that's a fact.

Add to that the adminstrations' behavior during the summer of 01, including, but far from limited to, their reaction to the warning that "Bin ladin determined to strike within the US", and I don't even know how another conclusion is very likely.

But I don't think they participated in or planned it. I do think Al Queda did it. But they let it happen, and that's a death penality offense in my opinion.
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Some of shit that came out of PNAC was pretty creepy to say the least, and as I see it that is the most logical argument for government complicity in 9/11. But even then I think it's a stretch when you consider the sheer number of people that would have been exposed to the intelligence as it worked its way up the chain.
 
Epicurus said:
By the way bac, everyone has at least a few positions or beliefs not shared by the mainstream. I personally believe that the Great Depression was more a failure of government intervention in the economy than of laissez-faire. Like you, I can make a logical argument to support my case for it, but I still am still aware that I am in the minority in viewing it that way.
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This is no insult to you my brother but I truly believe that one would have to be an absolute moron of the highest order to believe the 9/11 story.

Just think of all the money being spent to retrofit tall buildings now that we know they could melt from small fires .. something never known or demonstrated before in the history of fires, building, or Man .. never demonstarted since 9/11 and will never be demonstrated again .. which is why the world is not retrofitting tall buildings to withstand small fires.
 
Epicurus said:
Some of shit that came out of PNAC was pretty creepy to say the least, and as I see it that is the most logical argument for government complicity in 9/11. But even then I think it's a stretch when you consider the sheer number of people that would have been exposed to the intelligence as it worked its way up the chain.
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One hand didn't have to know what the other hand was doing or for what purpose they were doing it.

Why did the NORAD rules of engagement change just a few months before 9/11? Why was the stand-down order issued?

Why did the Bush Administratuion remove critical evidence from the crime scenes?

Why haven't the photos been released from the gas station across from the Pentagon?

I don't intend to rehash all the unanswered questions about 9/11, but if you don't know the answers to these and thousands of other critical questions, then how are you so sure THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION is telling you the truth?
 
Darla said:
I think that the 2000 election is going to end up having been the most pivotal election in our history. That was the one. It’s gone. It’s over.
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Yeah I expect Bush to go down in history as the president that presided over the beginning of the downfall of the USA.
 
Onceler said:
"Think about how different a place America would be right now with Gore as president. It's a little bit chilling"

I think about it now & again, and it is chilling, and sad, because it was so close.

What's even more chilling is the # of Americans who seem oblivious to the consequences of their decisions, and are ready to keep it all going w/ McCain because his running mate is a hockey mom who loves mooseburgers. The stupidity continues to boggle my mind.
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We live in a "It's not my fault" age in america.
One of the reasons for the rise in republicansim.
 
blackascoal said:
... with the Democratic Party and the American people as co-conspirators
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yes of course, but do not foget the republican parties lead role.
And especially those Americans that enabled bush to have a second term.

I only say that the demoncrats are not as bad as the republicans. sofar.
 
uscitizen said:
yes of course, but do not foget the republican parties lead role.
And especially those Americans that enabled bush to have a second term.

I only say that the demoncrats are not as bad as the republicans. sofar.
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The lessor of two evils still gets you evil.

I fully acknowledge the part the republicans played, but democrats like to forget the part they played.
 
uscitizen said:
yes of course, but do not foget the republican parties lead role.
And especially those Americans that enabled bush to have a second term.

I only say that the demoncrats are not as bad as the republicans. sofar.
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I also think there’s something else we shouldn’t forget. Yes, many Americans vote out of steaming hatred, and a willful stupidity which they embrace as a lover. And this does not apply to those very ugly people, a few of whom post here.

But too, many Americans are just too poor, too disenfranchised, too damned busy trying to work in a society that has gone from a one salaried, 9-5 job being able to support an entire family, to two salaries, at jobs insisting on 50 hours a week, struggling to make ends meet.

It’s hard to educate yourself very much when you’re worried about losing your home (people didn’t just start worrying about that this year, it’s been a worry for some, many even, for decades), when you’re doing the “uniquely American” thing of working three jobs, when you got sick and went bankrupt because your insurance company refused to cover enough…I could go on forever.

I mean, none of this happened by accident.
 
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