President Bush, October 2002
- Thread starter Care4all
- Start date
Damocles said:
No, under every permutation possible. The independent consortium looked at every possible permutation of what constituted the "clear intent" of the voter, and when both the legall cast overvotes and undervotes were counted, Gore won in each case.
Damocles said:
surely you jest, and surely you have read about this by now?
so do you think that we should always find a way to limit the vote that people have made verses finding a way to make all votes count that can be identified, if in a recount situation? Isn't that sort of arrogant and goes against the grain of what we believe as a country, that every discernable vote, should count?
ie, you checked the box for President Bush and you also Hand Wrote President Bush in as your choice for president?
I have read the overvote studies, there were many who voted for two candidates and very few who both wrote in and punched Gore's name... You are describing this disingenuously. This assumed that every overvote for Gore/Browne (5420), Gore/Harris(1017), Gore/Nader (1700), Gore/Phillips (619) were 100% Gore votes... This is once again psychic determination...Cypress said:
OrnotBitwise
Watermelon
Say, rather, that lying is a big part of marketing, not that it necessarily needs to be. And there are times when believing in something too much can lead one into distorting the truth about it -- which is exactly what some of the Bush supporters will claim happened with the build up to the war on Iraq.Care4all said:I disagree totally!
I firmly believed in the product that I created or developed... I believed in the quality of my materials, I believed in the factory I chose to develop them in and the engineers that were going to "get the graduated sizes" right when they developed the lasts to make them on, I believed in the features and benefits that we all developed and put in to the product, the shoes.....we made our NAME on COMFORT and we developed our product knowing this mission.
So when it came time to promote the product with marketing, I felt very confident that every word and arrow pointing to a feature or benefit of the product in the ad was the truth.
And when I showed this product at the trade shows, the same as above, no lies needed to sell the product, especially since my company made its name through having product with propriatory features.....features that we trademarked and registered, so that none of our competition could make the same claims....
no lying involved in making retailers to purchase the product....HONESTLY!
care
evince
Truthmatters
Damocles said:
No it wasnt, the chad bins were full and the people couldnt punch the hole out entirely, the dimples were the only marks for president.
How many people do you know who vote in a national election and dont vote for president.
The intent of the voter was not respected that day and the clock was run down and the intent of the voter was NEVER honored.
That is entirely UNAMERICAN!
Damocles said:
Damo,
we are NOT speaking about dimples or the "undervotes" right now...
We are talking about the "overvotes" that were thrown out by the machines becasue they were thought to be votes that were cast for two different people.
but instead, when the consortium reviewed these overvotes, many were a vote cast for Bush and then Bush's name writen in as choice of president in the "write in" spot, and many others were an choice of Gore and also Gore's name hand writen in as choice of president....
Those votes were thrown out, and never counted....when these overvotes were reviewed, it showed thousands of votes casted to Bush that should have been counted and thousands of votes casted towards Gore but not counted also.
The end tally of those votes gave Gore several thousand of votes more than Bush....
And once again, the Buchanon votes were also meant for Gore.....
Florida voters, voted for Gore... OVERWHELMINGLY....
that is not in question, in my mind, due to the above...
care
I read the studies on the overvotes as I stated and explained above. Very few voted twice for Gore, most voted for two candidates on those overvotes. It is psychic determination to "guess" that every one of those would be for Gore. This is once again a disingenuous means to give a candidate a victory.Care4all said:
Immanuel
Junior Member
"It is also contrary to Buddhist Principles. Hence, were I a saleperson, I would have to truly believe in the product to be able to educate people rather than manipulate them..."
I tried selling life insurance. Even though I believed in the product, I could not get passed the pressure to fib in order to sell it. Needless to say, I was not a very good salesperson.
Immie
I tried selling life insurance. Even though I believed in the product, I could not get passed the pressure to fib in order to sell it. Needless to say, I was not a very good salesperson.
Immie
There are also other means to create dimples. Not the least of which was the "almost vote" where a user simply almost punches, but then decides against it.Care4all said:
This is fundamentally guessing that only one answer is evident and ignoring any other reason a chad may be dimpled. Thus my description of "psychic determination".
i am trying to find the article where a read this 4 years ago...when i do, i will link it damo....
found this though...
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Florida voter errors cost Gore the election
By Dennis Cauchon and Jim Drinkard, USA TODAY
George W. Bush would have won a hand recount of all disputed ballots in Florida's presidential election if the most widely accepted standard for judging votes had been applied, the first comprehensive examination of the ballots shows. However, the review of 171,908 ballots also reveals that voting mistakes by thousands of Democratic voters — errors that legally disqualified their ballots — probably cost former vice president Al Gore 15,000 to 25,000 votes. That's enough to have decisively won Florida and the White House. Gore's best chance to win was lost before the ballots were counted, the study shows. Voters' confusion with ballot instruction and design and voting machines appears to have changed the course of U.S. history.
found this though...
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Florida voter errors cost Gore the election
By Dennis Cauchon and Jim Drinkard, USA TODAY
George W. Bush would have won a hand recount of all disputed ballots in Florida's presidential election if the most widely accepted standard for judging votes had been applied, the first comprehensive examination of the ballots shows. However, the review of 171,908 ballots also reveals that voting mistakes by thousands of Democratic voters — errors that legally disqualified their ballots — probably cost former vice president Al Gore 15,000 to 25,000 votes. That's enough to have decisively won Florida and the White House. Gore's best chance to win was lost before the ballots were counted, the study shows. Voters' confusion with ballot instruction and design and voting machines appears to have changed the course of U.S. history.
And I gave you quite a few examples of where those numbers come from by showing examples of the actual number of overvotes with two candidates.. Very few had two votes for Gore, most had two candidates and were assumed by the study to have wanted Gore.Care4all said: