Proles

AnyOldIron said:
I stated that property is an instinct,

Possession is an instinct, property is a social construct.

In the natural state, you possess what you can defend.

Under social freedoms, you own property that can be beyond that that you merely possess and can defend.

Have you never read Rousseau's Social Contract? He explains it very well...
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Protection is a construct of society, much like that of the pack. Together they are stronger and can protect more of their property. Even among humans this same limitation exists.
 
uscitizen said:
Cars are not lifeforms Damo .....
Talk about inane.....
although some humans do worship them.
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Both are inane. It was a valid analogy. The car and the dogs do not have the same impulses as humans. Pretending that they do and trying to compare sex between the species may as well be using something that isn't a lifeform.

Dogs are driven to have sex because they are in heat, that is all. Humans are not and can "steal" and control another taking their most basic possession from them.
 
Protect more of the packs property, not the indivuidual members property. the strongest in the pack eat first the weakest last.
 
Protection is a construct of society, much like that of the pack.

Rhinos aren't social animals, yet they protect themselves and their young?

The concept of property, ie possessing beyond what you can defend, is a construct of society.
 
AnyOldIron said:
Protection is a construct of society, much like that of the pack.

Rhinos aren't social animals, yet they protect themselves and their young?

The concept of property, ie possessing beyond what you can defend, is a construct of society.
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Right, but not of complex society. The pack is an instinctual society which does the same thing. You only cement my point with this.
 
Damocles said:
Both are inane. It was a valid analogy. The car and the dogs do not have the same impulses as humans. Pretending that they do and trying to compare sex between the species may as well be using something that isn't a lifeform.

Dogs are driven to have sex because they are in heat, that is all. Humans are not and can "steal" and control another taking their most basic possession from them.
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Again Damo, cars are not lifeforms... And therefore cannot be equated to Dogs.
If I kick my car am I charged with cruelty to automobile ?
 
Humans take great pride in creating these societies, and even when shown examples in nature still want to believe that they are unique. This is humanism and egocentrism. It does not change that the value of us/them, as well as "mine" is instinctual among many animal societies.

We gather together for protection, so do these groups...
 
uscitizen said:
Yep any. Perhaps I will have damo convinced that a car is not a lifeform by monday :)
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I stated it wasn't a lifeform as well. Pretending I did not doesn't change that I did, it just means that you are being dishonest. I directly answered why I used that analogy.
 
No, in that answer I stated that you may as well have used "automobile" as it would have equal validity. I also explained why it would. Use a different example. Like "Is there assault?" rather than rape as the whole sexaul instinct is so entirely different as to be incapable of such a comparison.

There is no rape among dogs because the reproduction instinct and structure is built entirely differently than ours.
 
Having survived the younger human years I am not so sure your other statement is true either Damo.
"Dogs are driven to have sex because they are in heat, that is all. Humans are not and can "steal" and control another taking their most basic possession from them."
Humans are dirven very much by instinctive hormonal dirven sex as well.
 
Yet they are also driven by enjoyment and thus have incentive to "take" what a dog does not have incentive to "take". This particular analogy is not actionable. Like I said, using something other than "rape" would be more valid.
 
Damocles said:
It is a violation of the most basic of property. Your own body.
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You choose to interpret that instinct/reflex as "property". That is your interpretation, not mine. I find yours stretched to the point of near absurdity, frankly.

Territoriality and assertion of status are instinctive. Property is not. Even posession is not, except as an expression of territoriality and status. Property is a social construct the purpose of which is to help regulate and mitigate conflict over territory and status.
 
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However I did not use dogs and rape together. Anyway, yes, sometimes among dog packs there is rape. A dog seeking dominance will seek to take that possession from another.
 
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