Proles

uscitizen said:
Yep Damo. Only humans have set up a society to protect the property rights of the weak though.
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Not true. Dogs in a pack will protect even the weakest in their pack from "others". Their societies too, created by instinct, also protect the weak.

While there may be internal battling, their social structure is still created for protection.
 
Damocles said:
Not true. Dogs in a pack will protect even the weakest in their pack from "others". Their societies too, created by instinct, also protect the weak.

While there may be internal battling, their social structure is still created for protection.
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Their butt is not a property right, what about who eats first off a kill ?
 
AnyOldIron said:
Property rights are an instinct, not a social structure. Even dogs fight over "their" property. People act like it is some complex thing only created by humans.

There are no property rights in the state of nature, you only have the possessions you can defend.

It is only with social rights that you have protection of property regardless of your ability to defend it.

Property rights are a freedom afford by society, not nature.
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One would never feel the need to "defend" without an inherent belief in "rights". This is an instinct. Believing this to be only a complex structure created by humans is egocentrism and humanist, but it doesn't make it more true. A dog has a sense of property, otherwise they would not seek to protect what is "theirs".
 
uscitizen said:
Their butt is not a property right, what about who eats first off a kill ?
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Your life is the first form of "property" that most animals and humans feel. The idea that your own life isn't "property" is a humanist ideal.

Who eats first is built on the social structure, the entire kill is the property of the pack...
 
One would never feel the need to "defend" without an inherent belief in "rights".

A lion will defend its kill. Does a lion have an inherent belief in rights?
 
As I said, it is an instinct, but it is clear they are protecting their property. Do you ever read more than the first two or three words of a complex post?
 
Your life is the first form of "property" that most animals and humans feel.

Are you claiming that animals understand the concept of property, rather than possession?
 
AnyOldIron said:
Your life is the first form of "property" that most animals and humans feel.

Are you claiming that animals understand the concept of property, rather than possession?
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One more time, since you never read the posts and will pretend I haven't three times already answered this inane question.

It is an instinct. It was clear that I said that the idea of property is an instinct from the very first post.
 
As I said, it is an instinct, but it is clear they are protecting their property.

No you didn't. You said " One would never feel the need to "defend" without an inherent belief in "rights". "

Do animals have a sense of 'rights' in your opinion...lol

Look up the difference between 'property' and 'possession'.


Do you ever read more than the first two or three words of a complex post?

LOL
 
Damocles said:
Your meat body is your property. If it wasn't there would be no violation when raped.
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Rape is not a violation of property rights. Your self is not merely your property, it is you.

Rape is rape. It has nothing to do with property. Neither does murder. They are culturally defined as crimes without reference to any rights of property.
 
AnyOldIron said:
As I said, it is an instinct, but it is clear they are protecting their property.

No you didn't. You said " One would never feel the need to "defend" without an inherent belief in "rights". "

Do animals have a sense of 'rights' in your opinion...lol

Look up the difference between 'property' and 'possession'.


Do you ever read more than the first two or three words of a complex post?

LOL
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That was not my first post on this subject. I stated that property is an instinct, not something created by societies or complex human structures.
 
OrnotBitwise said:
Rape is not a violation of property rights. Your self is not merely your property, it is you.

Rape is rape. It has nothing to do with property. Neither does murder. They are culturally defined as crimes without reference to any rights of property.
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It is a violation of the most basic of property. Your own body.
 
You used dogs as an example Damo, do dogs rape ? Don't jump anround and cherry pick now, lets stick with dogs.
 
uscitizen said:
You used dogs as an example Damo, do dogs rape ? Don't jump anround and cherry pick now, lets stick with dogs.
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Once again, it's like asking if cars rape. The instinct is entirely different. This analogy is a bad one.

Dogs do "attack" and take from other packs, thus "stealing" would not be unknown. But since they do not have sex unless they are in heat it would be inane to try to compare.
 
I stated that property is an instinct,

Possession is an instinct, property is a social construct.

In the natural state, you possess what you can defend.

Under social freedoms, you own property that can be beyond that that you merely possess and can defend.

Have you never read Rousseau's Social Contract? He explains it very well...
 
Their instinct for breeding is entirely different, one cannot compare.

You cannot compare possession in natural freedom with property afforded by social freedoms..
 
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