Put a fork in Ron and Rand

Rana said:
Well, you will be wrong, once again. In the case of the drones it is more than disappointed, it is pissed. I do not plan to vote for Obama, and I don't feel the need to make you believe me.
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Hey, Rana, you and I both know who our respective states are going for in November. Join me in padding the Gary Johnson vote!!
 
There is real substance to arguments about things such as the National Bank, assumption of state debts, and subsidies for developing manufactures. Dismissing the arguments as being mere byproducts of prejudice is mere relativism.
 
Nemo said:
No. Washington advised against political parties (which are the same as "factions") because they are divisive. He knew that well enough. And experience has proven him right. Liberals and conservatives are all of the same stamp - all are the fools of prejudice. We all bring our own biases and prejudices (our own political philosophy, so to speak) to the public forum. To be disposed one way or the other may depend on many things; but, ultimately, it all depends on only one thing - ourselves. We would all do well to examine ourselves - the validity of our own dislikes and preferences - before we start labeling and deriding others.
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Factions and parties are NOT the same. Sorry.

There have always been parties, even in Washington's time. There were Hamiltonians & Jeffersonians, Federalists & Republicans. In a sense, our national philosophy has always been a battle of some version of these two ideologies. It is the basis for what is described as "the two party system." Washington was not opposed to that. He was opposed to FACTIONS.... which are groups of purely special interests, amassing political power and corrupting the freedoms of the people. This would be like Liberals amassing special interests and unions to electing political leaders who pass massive reforms on the people, which the people didn't want. THAT was what Washington feared, you idiot!
 
Bijou said:
Of course not. Insane people are insane. My take on Ron Paul has nothing to do with his politics. The man's nuts. And - again - there is no debate to be had with Paulbots. Nothing I would say would ever convince you to waver from your undying devotion to Ron Paul. And anyway, this thread's about how Paul's done, which is a good thing, and that's what my posts on this thread are pertaining to.
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I still see nothing but baseless accusations about Ron Paul being a whackjob. What exactly do you see that makes him crazy? Is it the expectation that people follow their oath?
 
WinterBorn said:
I still see nothing but baseless accusations about Ron Paul being a whackjob. What exactly do you see that makes him crazy? Is it the expectation that people follow their oath?
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Plenty. I'll give you just one example of his whacked, warped and utterly erroneous philosophy regarding the free market, and if you're so moved you can research more on your own. Paul's done, and I look forward to the obviously-delayed realization of such to his loyal followers. Nuttery from Ron Paul:

"The regulations are much tougher in a free market, because you cannot commit fraud, you cannot steal, you cannot hurt people, and the failure has come that government wouldn't enforce this. In the Industrial Revolution there was a collusion and you could pollute and they got away with it. But in a true free market in a libertarian society you can't do that. You have to be responsible. So the regulations would be tougher."
 
Rana said:
Well, you will be wrong, once again. In the case of the drones it is more than disappointed, it is pissed. I do not plan to vote for Obama, and I don't feel the need to make you believe me.
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My non-vote will be like a vote for Obama
I'd say your non-vote would be like a vote for Mittens.

please vote
I'll stay home
 
Dixie said:
Well, the stimulus for one. It was supposed to jump start the economy, but if failed. It was supposed to ensure unemployment didn't fall below 8%... it hasn't been below 8% since Obama has been president, so again, FAILED. Bailing out GM and Chrysler... was supposed to 'save' the industry, but Chrysler still filed bankruptcy, and GM is far from saved. Ford, who didn't take any bailout money, is doing fine, profits are up, things are looking good for them. Again, the Keynesian approach FAILED. Nationalized health care, was supposed to be the end-all be-all to our problems, and reduce the cost of health care while increasing availability, it hasn't done so thus far. What it did, was kill jobs.

I tell ya, it might be better for you to list out all the ideas Obama has had that worked! The list of failed ideas is pretty long.
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It's impossible to know what the number would be, had we not done the stimulus. Likewise, it's impossible to know what would've happened if many of the states (Texas, for one) that railed against the stimulus...and then took the money....used it for job creation, as opposed to balancing their budgets. (something they'd brag about later.) The stimulus wasn't as big as many had called for. Likewise, I'd like you to show us who claimed anything about 8% unemployment.

The bailout DID save the auto industry. Bankruptcy was one of the terms of the deal, once some of Chryslers creditors refused to lower their liabilities. As such, Chrysler was allowed to file bankruptcy, and restructure.

Ford stock went down to about 4 bucks/share. It survived, largely due to truck sales. They didn't want to put up w/the terms of the govt. loans, so they chose to try their luck.

Of course, the 'Toyota's are dangerous' propaganda campaign helped all of the big 3 at that time.

Good thing a few Toyotas had faulty wiring at that moment in time

The bailout money was granted as LOANS, which have reaped profits.

Millions of jobs have been saved by that 'failed' policy.

As well, nearly 40% of the stimulus came in the form of tax cuts.

Do you think tax cuts were a bad idea?
 
Dixie said:
Well the past 4 years disproves that theory. You see, this is what you told us during 2008, when you were trying to win the presidency. Since then, we have implemented all your Keynesian ideas which are supposed to be so much better than the "free market approach" ....but they haven't worked. We've now spent about $3 trillion trying to make them work, and still... nothing.

The "free market approach" is actually the only thing that WILL work. You hate for capitalists to make money and profit, but they have to in order for the free market system to work. There is simply no way to experience robust economic prosperity, and rich people not make money. If we can drag you away from bludgeoning the rich for a bit, perhaps they could use their wealth to dig us out of the hole we are in, but you are too hate-filled and hell-bent to do that, aren't you?
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So? Can you tell us how the free market would've stopped the loss of almost 1million jobs/month?

The free market relies on demand. When millions of people lose their job, where does the demand come from?
 
It's impossible to know what the number would be, had we not done the stimulus.
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Shut the fuck up! I am tired of hearing this bullshit! Had we not done the stimulus, and instead, lowered taxes on corporations and upper income earners, we would have seen an economic tsunami and the creation of millions of jobs. Had we not done the stimulus, and instead, cut our spending by 20% across the board, our credit rating wouldn't have been lowered, and our economy would have recovered much sooner. Finally, had we not done the stimulus, we'd have about $3-5 trillion more dollars at our disposal, instead of sitting here scratching our heads, wondering what the fuck went wrong.

Take your five-cent excuses and conjecture, and stick 'em where the sun don't shine, buddy... it ain't washing anymore.
 
Althea said:
So? Can you tell us how the free market would've stopped the loss of almost 1million jobs/month?

The free market relies on demand. When millions of people lose their job, where does the demand come from?
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People are losing their jobs because corporations can not endure the financial burden your president is putting on them. You live in some fucked up fantasy land, where you can "punish rich greedy corporations" and it doesn't effect anything else... well guess fucking what? It DOES! The more you tighten the noose around the neck of capitalism, the more jobs will be gone. That's a fact of life you retards need to accept here, and stop deluding yourself into believing some fantasy. If you plan to transition us to a Socialist nation, you have to do it quickly, because capitalists aren't going to stick around and play the game. THAT is what you are now discovering, and why there aren't any jobs.

The sooner we rid Washington of this socialist mentality, the sooner we can get Americans back to work again, and the economy back on track. As long as Marxist Socialists are running the country, you can forget about it, that isn't going to happen.
 
Had we not done the stimulus, and instead, lowered taxes on corporations and upper income earners, we would have seen an economic tsunami and the creation of millions of jobs
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What utter stupidity. That's already been DONE, rube. 'Economic tsunami' - :rofl2: - where's that, rube? China? Where are all the jobs?
 
Bijou said:
What utter stupidity. That's already been DONE, rube. 'Economic tsunami' - :rofl2: - where's that, rube? China? Where are all the jobs?
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I'm done with the idiot. I can't believe he/she actually posts the crap he/she does.
 
Bijou said:
Exactly. Regurgitated horseshit masquerading as facts, from the 'living legend'. What a joke.
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LMAO... Yeah, you made a completely speculative assumption regarding what would have happened had we not passed the stimulus, and I regurgitated one right back at ya! It's good that you recognized it for what it was! If we're going to whip up fantasy horseshit and masquerade them as facts, I can play as well as you can.
 
Bijou said:
What utter stupidity. That's already been DONE, rube. 'Economic tsunami' - :rofl2: - where's that, rube? China? Where are all the jobs?
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Yes it has already been done, back during the Reagan era. He lowered the top marginal rate significantly, then Clinton raised it back up a little, and BushII lowered it back to almost what Reagan had. It hasn't been actually reduced since Reagan. When he did that, he averaged job growth of 2-3 million per month... how is your boy doing? During the Reagan recovery, 2 million new workers entered the workforce, under Obama, 2 million have left.

Why don't you ask Obummer where the jobs are? He's the one responsible!
 
Dixie said:
LMAO... Yeah, you made a completely speculative assumption regarding what would have happened had we not passed the stimulus, and I regurgitated one right back at ya! It's good that you recognized it for what it was! If we're going to whip up fantasy horseshit and masquerade them as facts, I can play as well as you can.
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There is no speculation about the support of the Austrian School and Milton Freedman for Ron Paul and Rand Paul style economics...not to mention the CIA led School Of The Americas...do some research for gawds sake...
 
Haiku said:
There is no speculation about the support of the Austrian School and Milton Freedman for Ron Paul and Rand Paul style economics...not to mention the CIA led School Of The Americas...do some research for gawds sake...
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What the fuck is your retarded ass even rambling about? Did some idiot on your left-wing blog post this, and you thought it was clever or something? Is that why you're running around here parroting it like it's some kind of great revelation? When are the black helicopters coming, that's always my favorite part!
 
Dixie said:
What the fuck is your retarded ass even rambling about? Did some idiot on your left-wing blog post this, and you thought it was clever or something? Is that why you're running around here parroting it like it's some kind of great revelation? When are the black helicopters coming, that's always my favorite part!
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You obviously have no understanding of our condition or how we got here...hyperbole makes no points. Watch the posted link then come back with something real.
 
Haiku said:
You obviously have no understanding of our condition or how we got here...hyperbole makes no points. Watch the posted link then come back with something real.
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Most of you fuckwits who want to tell us about Ronald Reagan, were still shitting yellow in your diaper when Reagan was president. Your analysis and opinion is about as irrelevant as can be.

I'm not watching your goddamn propaganda link... sorry, you'll have to earn your commission points off some other dupe. I'm not clicking through!

If you have a point to make, then make it, I am capable of looking it up on my own and verifying it, I don't need you to post me links.
 
Haiku said:
You obviously have no understanding of our condition or how we got here...hyperbole makes no points. Watch the posted link then come back with something real.
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Ask him what happened after the smoke cleared when Raygun's 'tsunami' was over.

Hint....the banks collapsed.


Ask him the difference between the tax cuts he proposes in order to create a tsunami, and the 40% of the stimulus that was TAX CUTS.
 
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