Question for Team Apocalypse

[Darth Omar]

and money

Hospitals get paid more for chinese virus positive patients. They also get paid more for patients on ventilators.

The government subsidized the increase in death count. Also these blue states think that the higher their death toll the more money they can steal from other taxpayers. They are takers

37k in Medicare money for every COVID patient on a vent.

One has to be pretty naive to think that one isn’t being gamed. Particularly, given the position hospitals were put in, in having to shut down electives.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

This has been explained numerous times here, but as the wise man once said: "You can lead a Reichwinger to facts, but you cannot make him think."

People do not die of influenza; they die of the resulting complications. Ditto for the coronavirus. A typical death certificate may list cause of death of a flu patient as 1. Pneumonia, and 2. Secondary to influenza. This is true of many common causes of death.

Example: My mother was a lifelong smoker. She developed COPD. By age 50 it was all she could do to travel up and down the basement stairs. By age 60 she was on 02 24/7. She passed at age 66. Her cause of death was listed as 1. Heart failure, 2. Secondary to COPD. When metadata for that year was compiled, she would have been listed in the "heart failure" category, and possibly in the COPD category.

Deniers like the OP want to count only death certificates that mention COVID, and patients who were given tests that were positive. This, of course, makes for lower numbers which makes #COVID45 look less culpable.

Let's take this scenario two elderly men are in ICU with respiratory problems. Both have pneumonia one due to the flu the other due to coronavirus. They both expire. Do you think the doctor is going to say the cause of death man A is pneumonia caused by the flu and Man B pneumonia caused by coronavirus? More than likely he will report both as coronavirus as that is what a lot of ME's are looking for.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Let's take this scenario two elderly men are in ICU with respiratory problems. Both have pneumonia one due to the flu the other due to coronavirus. They both expire. Do you think the doctor is going to say the cause of death man A is pneumonia caused by the flu and Man B pneumonia caused by coronavirus? More than likely he will report both as coronavirus as that is what a lot of ME's are looking for.

An ethical physician is going to report the cause of death accurately. Man A died from pneumonia secondary to influenza; Man B died from pneumonia secondary to COVID-19 infection.

The RW blogosphere is desperately trying to pretend that countless physicians, medical examiners, and public health officials have some vested interest in lying on death certificates. There is no proof of that, of course, because it isn't true. If anything, deaths from COVID are being *under*-reported, many public health experts believe, because the deceased patients were not tested for it.

https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/04/20/covid-count

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...y-higher-other-covid-stats-need-adjusting-too

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...kely-undercounted-not-overcounted/2973481001/

https://abcnews.go.com/US/video/numbers-covid-19-deaths-undercounted-70417811

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/us/coronavirus-deaths-undercount.html

https://www.idahostatejournal.com/o...cle_160e471a-d024-5fe7-9345-39a6f734d675.html

 

[Cypress]

An ethical physician is going to report the cause of death accurately. Man A died from pneumonia secondary to influenza; Man B died from pneumonia secondary to COVID-19 infection.

The RW blogosphere is desperately trying to pretend that countless physicians, medical examiners, and public health officials have some vested interest in lying on death certificates. There is no proof of that, of course, because it isn't true. If anything, deaths from COVID are being *under*-reported, many public health experts believe, because the deceased patients were not tested for it.

https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/04/20/covid-count

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...y-higher-other-covid-stats-need-adjusting-too

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...kely-undercounted-not-overcounted/2973481001/

https://abcnews.go.com/US/video/numbers-covid-19-deaths-undercounted-70417811

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/us/coronavirus-deaths-undercount.html

https://www.idahostatejournal.com/o...cle_160e471a-d024-5fe7-9345-39a6f734d675.html

We are literally seeing Trump boot lickers acquiring new talking points in real time.

First, COVID was not as bad as the 12,000 deaths from the 2009 H1N1 virus.

Then it was not as bad as the 61,000 deaths from the 2017 influenza outbreak.

Now that we have blown past all those goal posts, I guess we are down to medical doctors fudging the mortality numbers

 

[Eagle_Eye]

An ethical physician is going to report the cause of death accurately. Man A died from pneumonia secondary to influenza; Man B died from pneumonia secondary to COVID-19 infection.

The RW blogosphere is desperately trying to pretend that countless physicians, medical examiners, and public health officials have some vested interest in lying on death certificates. There is no proof of that, of course, because it isn't true. If anything, deaths from COVID are being *under*-reported, many public health experts believe, because the deceased patients were not tested for it.

https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/04/20/covid-count

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...y-higher-other-covid-stats-need-adjusting-too

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...kely-undercounted-not-overcounted/2973481001/

https://abcnews.go.com/US/video/numbers-covid-19-deaths-undercounted-70417811

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/us/coronavirus-deaths-undercount.html

https://www.idahostatejournal.com/o...cle_160e471a-d024-5fe7-9345-39a6f734d675.html

I don't know if it is true or not. But I see how easy it would be to blame the virus mistakenly. Example person has heart problems the virus attacks the lungs, some other organs shut down the heart can't take it and quits. The cause of death was heart, organs, lungs the viruswas part of the cause but the real reason the other organs couldn't take the stress. Under your rules the virus would be reported, but it may or may not have contributed to the cause. That is why mortality rate is not that important, When planning reopening. Personally I believe the left is using the mortality rate for solely political purposes.

 

[Geeko Sportivo]

Fuck you're truly a mega arsehole!

Arsehole my ass!

The truest sign of an asshole is someone using the term "Arsehole"!

Let's just get that out of the way- RIGHT UP FRONT!

 

[Walt]

and money Hospitals get paid more for chinese virus positive patients. They also get paid more for patients on ventilators. The government subsidized the increase in death count. Also these blue states think that the higher their death toll the more money they can steal from other taxpayers. They are takers

We do not have single payer healthcare, so you really have no point. More importantly insurance companies do not pay more for Covid-19 patients, but Covid-19 patients do cost more. This has been a real problem for hospitals.

 

[Walt]

37k in Medicare money for every COVID patient on a vent. One has to be pretty naive to think that one isn’t being gamed.

Usually, a hospital would charge for every hour or day on a ventilator. I do not believe they would have a flat rate. If someone spends 4 weeks on a ventilator, that would huge loss. Beyond that, Medicare only covers part of costs, which is why we get Supplemental coverage for our loved ones. You are really going to have to prove your claims here Omar.

As for hospitals gaming the system by killing people on ventilators... I hope that is not happening. It is murder if it is.

 

[Teflon Don]

We do not have single payer healthcare, so you really have no point. More importantly insurance companies do not pay more for Covid-19 patients, but Covid-19 patients do cost more. This has been a real problem for hospitals.

You are a Covidiot

The real problem for hospitals was listening to idiots like Fauci and shutting down for no reason. Stay under your bed

 

[Darth Omar]

Usually, a hospital would charge for every hour or day on a ventilator. I do not believe they would have a flat rate. If someone spends 4 weeks on a ventilator, that would huge loss. Beyond that, Medicare only covers part of costs, which is why we get Supplemental coverage for our loved ones. You are really going to have to prove your claims here Omar.

As for hospitals gaming the system by killing people on ventilators... I hope that is not happening. It is murder if it is.

U.S. hospitals receive more funds if patients are coded for coronavirus even if those patients haven’t been tested for the virus, fact-checkers at USA Today, Politifact, and Snopes have confirmed.

A hospital that admits a likely coronavirus patient can get up to $13,000 in aid and three times as much if that patient is placed on a ventilator, according to Minnesota state senator and physician Scott Jensen.

https://www.lacortenews.com/n/hospi...irus-patients-even-if-they-havent-been-tested

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

I don't know if it is true or not. But I see how easy it would be to blame the virus mistakenly. Example person has heart problems the virus attacks the lungs, some other organs shut down the heart can't take it and quits. The cause of death was heart, organs, lungs the viruswas part of the cause but the real reason the other organs couldn't take the stress.

If the individual would have lived absent the coronavirus infect, then obviously the coronavirus was the cause of death. BTW they are not my rules but thanks for thinking I have powerz. lol

Under your rules the virus would be reported, but it may or may not have contributed to the cause. That is why mortality rate is not that important, When planning reopening. Personally I believe the left is using the mortality rate for solely political purposes.

I'm sure you believe that. That's what your masters want you to believe because it somehow absolves #COVID45 for his abject failure.

We have no clue what the actual mortality rate is because we do not have enough testing. Mortality rate = number of deaths per number of infected people. I think what you're talking about is the death toll. Of course you want to blame that on something other than COVID. See above.

 

[Darth Omar]

If the individual would have lived absent the coronavirus infect, then obviously the coronavirus was the cause of death. BTW they are not my rules but thanks for thinking I have powerz. lol

I'm sure you believe that. That's what your masters want you to believe because it somehow absolves #COVID45 for his abject failure.

We have no clue what the actual mortality rate is because we do not have enough testing. Mortality rate = number of deaths per number of infected people. I think what you're talking about is the death toll. Of course you want to blame that on something other than COVID. See above.

The key to the mortality rate is seroprevalence testing.

There’s been a half dozen or so studies done both here and abroad. Can you find one that *doesn’t* point to a low COVID mortality rate?

 

[Eagle_Eye]

If the individual would have lived absent the coronavirus infect, then obviously the coronavirus was the cause of death. BTW they are not my rules but thanks for thinking I have powerz. lol



I'm sure you believe that. That's what your masters want you to believe because it somehow absolves #COVID45 for his abject failure.

We have no clue what the actual mortality rate is because we do not have enough testing. Mortality rate = number of deaths per number of infected people. I think what you're talking about is the death toll. Of course you want to blame that on something other than COVID. See above.

I'm sure you believe that. That's what your masters want you to believe because it somehow absolves #COVID45 for his abject failure.

Do you realize how moronic that sounds? The death rate indicates a failure in handling the pandemic. It might make sense if Trump was incharge of finding a cure but he isn't and has no control over a serum.

If you want to show mismanagement then it is in the unchecked spread of the virus not the death rate.

 

[Sailor]

Unfortunately, a poster who was chuckling about only 61 deaths two months ago, has no credibility - zero, none, nada, zilch - to even try to pass any judgements or opinions on this pandemic

I disagree. He tends to be more on top of this than everyone else on this board.

 

[signalmankenneth]

 

[Bigdog]

Democratic governor Jared Polis could have circled the wagons. But to his enormous credit, he ordered the state to publish the two different numbers. He told Fox News Sunday that the new approach is “a better way to inspire confidence” in the data on the total number of virus victims.

We are past PEAK Fearmongering.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

The key to the mortality rate is seroprevalence testing.

There’s been a half dozen or so studies done both here and abroad. Can you find one that *doesn’t* point to a low COVID mortality rate?

The highest I've seen is ~3% but most seem to be around 1.5%.

That being said, without an adequate amount of accurate testing we won't be able to narrow it down much better than that.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Do you realize how moronic that sounds? The death rate indicates a failure in handling the pandemic. It might make sense if Trump was incharge of finding a cure but he isn't and has no control over a serum.

If you want to show mismanagement then it is in the unchecked spread of the virus not the death rate.

Trump had control over our response to the pandemic. If you don't want ppl to believe that you're a Trumpanzee, quit trying to defend his multiple failures on that. The death toll (not rate!) is because of the "unchecked spread of the virus."

There is nothing special about Americans and our DNA that led us to have far more deaths than any other nation on this planet. Why do we then? No, it's not doctors faking causes of deaths. It's because of the failures of this thing.

Spoiler

 

[Darth Omar]

The highest I've seen is ~3% but most seem to be around 1.5%.

That being said, without an adequate amount of accurate testing we won't be able to narrow it down much better than that.

You’ve seen a seroprevalence study with results around 3%?

Where? If you’re talking about spot testing those are nearly useless for arriving at a mortality rate.

 

[Darth Omar]

Trump had control over our response to the pandemic. If you don't want ppl to believe that you're a Trumpanzee, quit trying to defend his multiple failures on that. The death toll (not rate!) is because of the "unchecked spread of the virus."

There is nothing special about Americans and our DNA that led us to have far more deaths than any other nation on this planet. Why do we then? No, it's not doctors faking causes of deaths. It's because of the failures of this thing.

Spoiler

How does our per capita death rate compare with other countries?