Ralph Nadar
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No my premise is that I live in the real world, and voting for Ralph Nadar can cost lives. I’m really sick and tired of having people jump on me for it. I don’t like Nadar. He wasn’t the sole factor in 2000, but he certainly was one factor. If any of the people who want to jump on me, feel like explaining why their principles are so important to the families of dead Iraqis, dead US soldiers…feel free.
I’m not apologizing for believing that Ralph Nadar is a megalomaniacal prick.
Your premise is "Vote Democrat or you are making <insert Democrat here> lose, it's a vote for <insert Republican here>!"
A vote for Nader is a vote for Nader not a vote for the Republican. Disparaging third parties and becoming wholly establishment doesn't make anybody better off.
A vote for Nader is a vote for Nader not a vote for the Republican. Disparaging third parties and becoming wholly establishment doesn't make anybody better off.
Listen, am I fucking entitled to my own opinion on this or not? I’m not taking shit about this anymore. I’ve always felt this way, but spent years afraid to come out and say so, because you’d have the leftists jumping on your ass, then you get the libertarians jumping on your ass, then you get the died-in-the-wool republicans who are hard over the idea of any little thing that might slap their warmongers into the white house, on your ass, as they pretend they give a fuck about Democracy.
I hold a different opinion. Is this only America, unless you don't like Ralph Nadar?
Get over it.
I'm sick of this line of reasoning. We live in reality, and in reality, if Nader doesn't run in 2000, Gore wins, and about 200,000 people are still alive.
Nader made his point in 2000, and was effective in bringing some of his issues to the forefront of Democrat priorities. Come October, even "Nader's Raiders" were begging him to get out of the race, because it was so close between Bush & Gore. He stuck in it for EGO ALONE. That is unforgivable. I don't know how that guy sleeps at night, much less announces a new run for President.
And you know what? We have every right to express ours as well. That you feel as if you are under attack because we do is sad. That we believe that others should have more choices than just the two big establishment candidates isn't unpatriotic or voting for <insert whatever you don't want here> no matter who it is you don't want.
The reality is, disparaging others because they don't vote your way is very "american", unfortunately. It is that thing which we use to create the largest divide in our society, and attempting to force people within your box doesn't make it better.
See above. Your ego gets in the way of allowing others more choices. Most who voted Nader wouldn't have voted if he wasn't in the race, it wouldn't have changed the results.
I'm not disparaging anybody other than one Ralph Nadar- you are. With you lofty principles - meanwhile you're more likely to vote for Mccain, so give me a break. I couldn't care less what you think on this. Or what anybody thinks frankly. I'm soooo tired of listening to the hard left on this for the past 7 years too.
Onceler has it exactly right. No Nadar - hundreds of thousands are alive today. There is NO principle that justifies that. Period.
Rubbish, you disparage everybody who voted for Nader. You wish they hadn't had the choice because you think they'd have gone your way. You wish that they only had the choice to vote your way because how you think is the only way people should think.
According to Nadar himself - 39% of his votes in 2000 would have gone to Al Gore. 25% to Bush, and the rest would have stayed home. that puts Gore in the white house and hundreds of thousands who died, do not.
Bullshit. I have absolutely no doubt that at least 600 of them in FL would have gone for Gore.
Like I said, Nader brought his issues to as much of a place of priority within the Dem party as he could. What is the point of going further, when you know for a fact - indisputably - that you have no chance of even coming close to winning?
Would you bother to apply for a job if the employer told you they had already decided it would be a choice between 2 other candidates, and they wouldn't consider a 3rd under any circumstances? Would you waste months & energy on that? If you would, you're really stupid.
In general, I think voting 3rd party is a 'cocktail party' vote; you get to feel all good about yourself because you're "above the fray," and hey, at least you didn't vote for either of those hacks.
In Nader's case, it went beyond that; we got 8 years of Bush, and a war that will likely take us decades to recover from. From Nader's perspective, his priorities - from the environment, to the poor, to taxes, to foreign policy - took an absolute beating. They're barely breathing at this point.
Only in your sick mind. You see what you want to see - and what you want to see is one John McCain in the white house.
You're not credible, sorry.
No, I read what you post. You think that everybody should think exactly like you, that Nader was irresponsible for giving people another choice at that election. You have stated on here several more times how any other choice was immoral.
LOL. Sure, ok Damo.
Does this not say that you think it immoral to vote any other way than the one you support? I call you on it and you pretend that it wasn't stated. You have posted this stuff several times in this thread alone. If everybody was precognitive and knew 9/11 was coming and then we'd invade Iraq I might give you that... But no, they made a choice with different knowledge and voted for the values that best represented them.
My brother voted for Bush, in Florida, because he bought into the "a vote for (third party) is a vote for ___" nonsense. And I know a lot of repub leaning libertarians that did the same. That argument may well have given Bush the election. All the Nader haters have blood on their hands for it.
No, what it means is that for nadar to run again, is solely about his ego. We now know that there was a difference.
And anyone who is reading Obama closely, and I read an interview his foreign policy advisor did with Amy Goodman yesterday, and anyone who is reading McCain closely, understands that there is again, a big difference here. And that difference is going to mean lives. Nadar knows this and he doesn’t give a shit. I personally have zero respect for him.
I’m not scared of him – if Obama is the nominee Nadar isn’t going to get enough votes to matter, anywhere. But it doesn’t make me respect him any more. Fuck Ralph Nadar.
FUCK THE POLICE
911 EVERY DAY
A vote for Gore is a vote for Bush!
Vote for Nader!
Honestly, we all have a right to an opinion. That doesn't mean we have a right to not have our opinion critiscized.
It does have a flip-side doesn't it?
Saying “fuck ralph nadar” reminded me of these two hysterical videos I watched yesterday. One with Sarah Silverman and Matt Damon called “I’m f’ing matt damon” . And then her bf, some comedian, he has a show, the kids will know who he is probably, did a video with Ben Affleck called “I’m f’ing ben Affleck”. It was really funny, and I can’t get the catchy “I’m f’ing matt damon” out of my head. And then I thought wouldn’t it be excellent, if I could get Paul Krugman to do a youtube video with me, called “I’m f’ing Paul Krugman”? Then I could post it here, and you guys would die, come on it would be great!
But you know, I doubt he’d do it.
But you know, I doubt he’d do it.