It's bad policy because it supports totalitarianism, helps build a chinese army against US and prices non-slaves out of the market. That's not empty. You just cannot deny these points, so your mind screens them out for you. Your a brainwash victim.
Well, let's take your points one by one, and objectively evaluate them. First, it does give money to at totalitarian regime, this is true. It doesn't support the regime, however, because the Chinese could get the money from any number of other sources. If the Chinese totalitarians relied solely on US trade dollars, then you might say we were 'supporting' them, the more accurate word would be 'patronizing' them. The money might very well go toward building their military, however, they would have built their military regardless, and Euros work as well as Dollars for that purpose. Case in point, the Chinese have the largest standing army on the planet... they didn't get that by having US trade, because we didn't trade with them. As for pricing the non-slave workers out of the market, that is what happens if we don't absorb the Chinese goods into the market by including them into the WTO. It is part and parcel why we should trade with China.
Now, I think we can agree, I haven't ignored your points here, I have addressed them completely, and I can objectively understand your concerns, so I am not brainwashed or anything else, although, you seem to be.
Yet our additional billions are an incredible help. if we had had this loser attitude about the ussr, they'd have won. This is the "if you can't beat them join them" attitude. And it sucks and is treasonous. You're an appeaser.
In the words of Ronald Reagan, there you go again! It's not treasonous, and I am not an appeaser, and you need to learn not to keep using this over-hyped exaggerated rhetoric to try and make a point, it's the most obvious indication you are a liberal pinhead.
I will once again attempt to penetrate your concrete head... China is not going to make MORE money by trading with the US. They will make the exact same money they made before, they will produce the same amount of products as they produced before, they will sell the same amount of goods as they did before, the only difference is, the US is one of their trade partners. So, to be clear, and to insure you understand what 'trade' is, it doesn't mean China is getting anything extra, or making any extra income, it simply means we are going to reap some of the benefit of cheap Chinese goods, that the Europeans might have otherwise enjoyed at our expense.
Again.... I addressed your point here, I didn't ignore what you said, I am not glossing over anything, or being brainwashed. This is common sense and economics, and it requires that you first understand what 'trade' is and how it works, you obviously don't.
This is the explaination you always use in your comparative advantage routine. They can have all the actual real jobs and we can all become lawyers and poets. It's b.s. It fosters dependancy and erodes our skills base.
I'm sorry, but I don't see an 'explanation' in the preceding quote, I see a question to you, and you didn't answer it. Who has ever advocated we outsource any and all jobs to China?
So what is going to dissuade them from even further and more brutal human slavery? You have not explained this. How is it good to allow them to earn our dollars to build an army agaisnt us? you're running on fumes and your increasingly long winded screeds are inversely proportional to your actual persuasiveness.
Well, I thought I explained it, but apparently it didn't make it through the concrete. At some point in the future, when the US and China have enjoyed a long standing trade alliance, and have billions of dollars invested in this mutual objective, we will have a bargaining chip. We can then go to the Chinese and say... lookit, you want to keep the US trade, you have to do A, B, and C. Otherwise, we will stop buying from you. At that point, our withdrawal of trade would be financially damaging to them, (it's not this way now, because we don't have that much trade, and it can easily be offset by the European market.) No guarantees this will work to reform China, they may remain completely defiant, and still refuse to change, however, it affords a much better opportunity to effect a change, than isolating ourselves and refusing to budge.
An old married couple has a disagreement... they are not speaking to each other... they will never see eye to eye on this... there is no compromise... are they more likely to come to some resolution, by sitting down at the kitchen table and discussing their issues with each other over a cup of coffee... or by going to their rooms and locking the door? Your approach, is to go to our room and lock the door on China, to refuse to sit at the table with them, to remain stubborn and defiant and unwilling to find compromise. This will never work to effect any change in the conditions in China, or any of the other issues at hand, market stability, national security, etc.
You have accepted totalitarianism and seek to join it. You are a traitor to all things our forefathers died for.
Classic Liberal Pinhead Exaggeration # 2048
Excluding one country is not "isolationism" you word mangling, deceptive, ass twinkie.
No word mangling, to that one country, it certainly is isolationism, how else would you describe it? And you have already gone on record as stating, it's not just one country, it's any country that doesn't share our attitudes toward freedom and liberty.
So now it's liberal to be against chinese totalitarians? I thought they were the commies. Turns out it's actually fascism and it's the neocons who love it. WHo knew?
Well, if it is, then I am a liberal, because I am against Chinese totalitarianism! As we've discussed, my plan (the official US plan) affords some opportunity for future reform in China. Your plan (the one we've tried for a century) does not afford any opportunity for any discussion of any thing with the Chinese. By allowing the status quo to continue, you are in effect supporting Chinese totalitarianism.
Free trade can have exceptions. Like in the case of other national security or human rights concerns. Your black and white thinking is not wisdom, it's stupidity.
Free trade can't have exceptions, or it wouldn't be "free" trade. It is true, trade is often used as leverage to effect a political change in regards to human rights. Sure, it's black and white thinking, but common sense is black or white. It's not stupid to think we can effect more change in China as a strong allied trade partner, rather than isolating ourselves from them and belligerently refusing to come to the table.
It's appeasement. You admit it in so many words. ANd you have abandoned freedom as basic concept of any acceptable society. You are a fascist globalist and I will fight you till my dying breath, you satanic, anti-american scum bag.
No, I have actually gone out of my way several times to point out, it can't be appeasement, because we aren't appeasing anything! Appeasement is giving in to some demand, and there has been no demand from China for the US to trade with them. If you are going to continue using this word, I think you need to fully explain what you mean, because the premise that we are somehow appeasing the Chinese by purchasing products they would normally sell to the Europeans, is inherently flawed.
You are a fascist globalist and I will fight you till my dying breath, you satanic, anti-american scum bag
What? Are you trying out for Pinhead of the Year? This makes about the 5th time in this thread, you've gone to the well of Liberal insults and put downs, because you can't seem to make a valid point. Please refrain from categorizing official US trade policy as "fascist", "satanic", and "anti-american", because you really just like a pinheaded fool who can't make a point.
They've all been refuted and you have been repudiated. Our policy makers are selling us out in broad daylight, therefore ,citing their concurrence helps you not
No, my points have not been refuted, if you want to claim this you can, it's just not the case. Now, you have certainly repudiated me, you continue to do that quite nicely, but it doesn't address the points at all. All you have done is heaped over-blown rhetoric on top of over-hyped exaggeration, and made a bunch of liberal platitude statements that are empty and irrelevant. You have yet to explain how isolationism is going to ever effect a change in Chinese human rights, and frankly, you can't explain it because it defies logic.
When you speak of brainwashing, it appears you have been brainwashed yourself. Over and over, you repeat the same crap with no basis, as if you have some profound knowledge the rest of us aren't privy to. If you have evidence of our policy makers selling us out, you should present it! If you have evidence this is a vast neocon plot, you should show it! Because, right now, you are just running your mouth without anything to back up a word you are saying, and it's just plain ignorant to try and have a debate with someone like that.
