Settling the Biological Virus Debate

[Scott]

I've heard of a lot of symptoms that are allegedly caused by the Cov 2 virus. What I haven't seen is any solid evidence that the Cov 2 virus (or any other biological virus) exists.

You can observe them using an electron microscope.

Can we? I've seen no evidence that what's been observed under any electron microscrope is actually a Cov 2 virus. I personally think that journalist Iain Davis has done one of the best articles for the layman when it comes to looking into the evidence that the Cov 2 virus actually exists. It's here, if you're interested:

COVID19 – Evidence Of Global Fraud | Off Guardian

 

[Scott]

Word stuffing. Republicans are not saying that viruses do not exist.

Agreed, this is definitely not a partisan issue. The only group of doctors and other professionals that I know of who have signed a statement challenging the notion that biological viruses exist are referenced in the opening post of this thread. It took me around a year to finally come around to their belief on this. The more I looked at the evidence, the more their belief made sense to me.

 

[Scott]

The problem is you don't think.

Nothing like engaging in an ad hominem attack at the beginning of a post to short circuit discussion. If that was your goal, well done. In any case, my believe here stands.

Nothing like ignoring all arguments that show your arguments to be bullshit.

A word of advice: if you'd like me to read further then your ad hominem attacks, I suggest you insult -after- you present your arguments. Doing so at the start gets me to ignore most if not all of what you says afterwards.

 

[Scott]

I'd like to read what you read. I think it may be possible, at least if the telegraphs in question were communicating with each other via radio waves.

Telegraphs use radio waves?
Is English your second language?

Do you use telegraphs regularly? I myself have never used one. In any case, the American Heritage Dictionary defines the noun definition of a telegraph this way:

**
A communications system that transmits and receives simple unmodulated electric impulses, especially one in which the transmission and reception stations are directly connected by wires.
**

Source:
https://www.wordnik.com/words/telegraph

The fact that it mentions "especially" suggests that telegraphs don't need to use wires, though they usually do.

In any case, I know the case has been made that electricity transmitted via wires can also affect people. Arthur Firstenbery brings this up in his book "The Invisible Rainbow". Incidentally, he brings up evidence in his book that the flu is not contagious and that its rise in modern times is directly related to EMFs, or electromagnetic frequencies, something which both electricity and radio waves emit. An article on this is here:

The Invisible Rainbow: “Flu is Not Contagious” | covid19reader.com

 

[Scott]

Medical science KNOWS that viruses exist.

You act like medical science is a person, rather than a concept. If medical science "knows" that viruses exist, you'd think they'd be able to prove it, or at least provide solid evidence for them. It hasn't been able to do either.

Science has proven it.

Many people use the word science as previous generations have used religions. Anyone who disagrees is labelled a heretic and at this point, many even consider those who disagree with them to be evil as well. I think the following video from Paul Watson makes a good case for this:

In spite of what you and Dr Bailey spout the scientific community has been able to isolate and sequence viruses.

You saying it doesn't mean it's actually been done.

This is a a takedown of Dr Bailey's arguments that includes multiple links to scientific papers.
https://dailysceptic.org/archive/the-real-truth-about-viruses/

Let's address the alleged problems raised by Dr Watson in his lengthy article that tears apart Sam Bailey's claims point by point.

By all means, bring up points raised by Dr. Watson by quoting things he says.

 

[Scott]

Thanks. So she is no longer licensed to practice. I'm definitely curious to know why. In any case, this in no way takes away from her knowledge. I'd argue that she's gone the extra mile and learned a great deal more than most doctors when it comes to viruses. She's one of the authors of the most recent edition of the Virus Mania book that I bought. I highly recommend it. It's here for anyone who's interested:

Virus Mania: Corona/COVID-19, Measles, Swine Flu, Cervical Cancer, Avian Flu, SARS, BSE, Hepatitis C, AIDS, Polio, Spanish Flu. How the Medical Industry Continually Invents Epidemics, Making Billion-Dollar Profits At Our Expense | Amazon.com

What you believe and reality seem to be far removed from each other.

Making unsubstantiated assertions doesn't help your case.

If you bothered to read the court ruling, you might be able to buy a clue as to why she is no longer licensed to practice. (She is arguing to the court that her videos on YouTube are not medicine.)

They aren't. She's stating what she believes and goes to great lengths to explain why she believes what she does.

Oh, look you posted a link to a book you haven't read and can't defend.

Jumping to conclusions yet again I see. I've read the book and have used passages from it in the past to aid in arguments I've made.

But, if she is so far ahead of others, why do they know that the RNA sequences of viruses can be found here and she doesn't?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/
(The influenza virus has been sequenced and submitted to the database over 250,000 times by labs around the world. How would that be possible if it can't be isolated like [Dr] Bailey claims?)

Posting a link is not the same thing as providing evidence for your assertions. I think it's clear that you have little idea as to how viruses are allegedly sequenced. I suggest taking a look at the following article if you'd like to learn:
COVID19 – Evidence Of Global Fraud | Off Guardian

The author of the article focuses on the Cov 2 virus, but he points out that he isn't sure about the original Cov virus either. The doctors I reference in the opening post have gone beyond Cov viruses and come to the conclusion that no virus has ever been truly isolated or sequenced.

 

[Scott]

I'd like to read what you read. I think it may be possible, at least if the telegraphs in question were communicating with each other via radio waves.

I'll try to look for it. The jist was that farmboys who had never been exposed to electrical fields moved to cities to learn to operate telegraphs and got sick because of it. I'll look for the article tonight.

Alright, let me know if you find it. I'm wondering if the source may actually be Arthur Firstenberg. He wrote a book called The Invisible Rainbow that covers EMFs or ElectroMagnetic Frequencies, from the start of man made electricity all the way to our modern age.

 

[Scott]

There you go, making science sound like a person, or perhaps a God. Here's Merriam Webster's first definition for the term:
**
knowledge or a system of knowledge covering general truths or the operation of general laws especially as obtained and tested through scientific method
**

Source:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/science

I think it's worth taking a look at the linked term above, the scientific method:

**
principles and procedures for the systematic pursuit of knowledge involving the recognition and formulation of a problem, the collection of data through observation and experiment, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses
**

Source:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scientific method

Now that you have defined the scientific method, I think we can all agree that you are only doing so in order to not actually follow it.

Did you -really- think I'd agree with you here?

You haven't provided an hypothesis that fits the known facts.

I think you've gotten sidetracked from the focus of this thread. The focus of this thread is to look at the evidence, or lack thereof, that viruses exist. So far, I have seen precious little on your part with actual evidence that viruses exist.

You go to great lengths to avoid any tests of the hypothesis that viruses don't exist.

Again, you've gotten sidetracked from the topic of this thread. The topic here is to provide evidence that viruses -do- exist, or admit that such evidence doesn't exist.

 

[Nordberg]

Here are microscope images of Viruses.https://www.cdc.gov/sars/lab/images.html There is no doubt they exist.

 

[Scott]

Here are microscope images of Viruses.https://www.cdc.gov/sars/lab/images.html There is no doubt they exist.

Those are electron microscope images of microbes that the CDC claims are Cov virus particles. They don't actually provide evidence that they are, in fact, biological viruses. When it comes to Cov viruses, and the Cov 2 virus in particular, I believe that journalist Iain Davis wrote an excellent article showing how the Cov 2 virus is the equivalent of the emperor with no clothes. Here it is:

COVID19 – Evidence Of Global Fraud | Off Guardian

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

A word of advice: if you'd like me to read further then your ad hominem attacks, I suggest you insult -after- you present your arguments. Doing so at the start gets me to ignore most if not all of what you says afterwards.

So when you are you going to respond to the evidence that you continue to ignore?



Evidence of the covid virus being isolated and sequenced.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC703e6342/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1198743X20304274
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7366528/
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10096-020-03899-4

Evidence of other viruses being isolated and sequenced.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10096-020-03899-4
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/professionals/genetic-characterization.htm
https://asm.org/Articles/2020/October/SARS-CoV-2-Sequencing-Data-The-Devil-Is-in-the-Gen
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rstb.2019.0572
https://www.thermofisher.com/blog/b...ng-the-monkeypox-genome-with-ion-torrent-ngs/

Directions of how to isolate a virus and sequence it's RNA
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0042682219300728
https://www.nature.com/articles/nrmicro.2016.182
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3709572/
https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12985-017-0741-5
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0027805
https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/mBio.01360-14
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3502977/

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

Do you use telegraphs regularly? I myself have never used one. In any case, the American Heritage Dictionary defines the noun definition of a telegraph this way:

**
A communications system that transmits and receives simple unmodulated electric impulses, especially one in which the transmission and reception stations are directly connected by wires.
**

Source:
https://www.wordnik.com/words/telegraph

The fact that it mentions "especially" suggests that telegraphs don't need to use wires, though they usually do.

In any case, I know the case has been made that electricity transmitted via wires can also affect people. Arthur Firstenbery brings this up in his book "The Invisible Rainbow". Incidentally, he brings up evidence in his book that the flu is not contagious and that its rise in modern times is directly related to EMFs, or electromagnetic frequencies, something which both electricity and radio waves emit. An article on this is here:

The Invisible Rainbow: “Flu is Not Contagious” | covid19reader.com

Telegraph systems do NOT use high voltage. The radio waves they produce are negligible. But leave it to you to introduce more conspiracy bullshit proving you can't tell fact from fiction.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

Many people use the word science as previous generations have used religions. Anyone who disagrees is labelled a heretic and at this point, many even consider those who disagree with them to be evil as well. I think the following video from Paul Watson makes a good case for this:




You saying it doesn't mean it's actually been done.

Provide your evidence disputing the following science -

Evidence of the covid virus being isolated and sequenced.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC703e6342/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1198743X20304274
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7366528/
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10096-020-03899-4

Evidence of other viruses being isolated and sequenced.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10096-020-03899-4
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/professionals/genetic-characterization.htm
https://asm.org/Articles/2020/October/SARS-CoV-2-Sequencing-Data-The-Devil-Is-in-the-Gen
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rstb.2019.0572
https://www.thermofisher.com/blog/b...ng-the-monkeypox-genome-with-ion-torrent-ngs/

Directions of how to isolate a virus and sequence it's RNA
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0042682219300728
https://www.nature.com/articles/nrmicro.2016.182
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3709572/
https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12985-017-0741-5
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0027805
https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/mBio.01360-14
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3502977/

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

Did you -really- think I'd agree with you here?



I think you've gotten sidetracked from the focus of this thread. The focus of this thread is to look at the evidence, or lack thereof, that viruses exist. So far, I have seen precious little on your part with actual evidence that viruses exist.



Again, you've gotten sidetracked from the topic of this thread. The topic here is to provide evidence that viruses -do- exist, or admit that such evidence doesn't exist.

Evidence of the covid virus being isolated and sequenced.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC703e6342/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1198743X20304274
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7366528/
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10096-020-03899-4

Evidence of other viruses being isolated and sequenced.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10096-020-03899-4
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/professionals/genetic-characterization.htm
https://asm.org/Articles/2020/October/SARS-CoV-2-Sequencing-Data-The-Devil-Is-in-the-Gen
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rstb.2019.0572
https://www.thermofisher.com/blog/b...ng-the-monkeypox-genome-with-ion-torrent-ngs/

Directions of how to isolate a virus and sequence it's RNA
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0042682219300728
https://www.nature.com/articles/nrmicro.2016.182
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3709572/
https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12985-017-0741-5
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0027805
https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/mBio.01360-14
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3502977/

Do you have any actual science that was conducted published showing viruses don't exist. Science requires that the person with the hypothesis do the testing, not push conspiracy bullshit about how no one has proven them wrong.

 

[Poor Richard Saunders]

Did you -really- think I'd agree with you here?



I think you've gotten sidetracked from the focus of this thread. The focus of this thread is to look at the evidence, or lack thereof, that viruses exist. So far, I have seen precious little on your part with actual evidence that viruses exist.



Again, you've gotten sidetracked from the topic of this thread. The topic here is to provide evidence that viruses -do- exist, or admit that such evidence doesn't exist.

What actual data and experimentation have you presented to us on this thread? What experiments did Dr Sam Bailey conduct? What data has she collected using the scientific method?

By the way... Here is some evidence which was collected using the scientific method. YOu have yet to address any of it.


Evidence of the covid virus being isolated and sequenced.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC703e6342/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1198743X20304274
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7366528/
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10096-020-03899-4

Evidence of other viruses being isolated and sequenced.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10096-020-03899-4
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/professionals/genetic-characterization.htm
https://asm.org/Articles/2020/October/SARS-CoV-2-Sequencing-Data-The-Devil-Is-in-the-Gen
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rstb.2019.0572
https://www.thermofisher.com/blog/b...ng-the-monkeypox-genome-with-ion-torrent-ngs/

Directions of how to isolate a virus and sequence it's RNA
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0042682219300728
https://www.nature.com/articles/nrmicro.2016.182
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3709572/
https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12985-017-0741-5
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0027805
https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/mBio.01360-14
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3502977/

 

[Into the Night]

Microbes can be observed with an electron microscope. What's under contention is whether any of those microbes are actually biological viruses. The group of doctors and other professionals that I reference in my opening post provide a method wherein scientists can attempt to prove the viruses actually exist. So far, it seems no one has taken them up on their offer.

Okay. Let's follow this:
Since multiple people have observed the sun rise this morning, it doesn't exist.

Viruses exist. Proof by identity. So does the Sun. Proof by identity.

 

[Into the Night]

As Into the Night correctly pointed out, this is not a partisan issue. As far as I know, there is only a small group of doctors and other professionals who question if not outright no longer believe that viruses exist. They signed their name to a 2 page statement that I link to in the opening post.

It really doesn't matter if someone is a 'professional' or holds a doctorate. Viruses exist. Proof by identity. You can observe them with an electron microscope.

 

[Into the Night]

Can we?

Yes.

I've seen no evidence that what's been observed under any electron microscrope is actually a Cov 2 virus.

Argument of ignorance fallacy.

I personally think that journalist Iain Davis has done one of the best articles for the layman when it comes to looking into the evidence that the Cov 2 virus actually exists. It's here, if you're interested:
COVID19 – Evidence Of Global Fraud | Off Guardian

This article is making the same fallacies you are.

Genome sequencing does not have be perfect to relate a virus to a series. This sequence is known as Covid-2 of the Covid/SARS series of viruses. It is also called covid19. The virus exists. Proof by identity.

Now...to the fraud.

In the entire Covid/SARS series of viruses, NONE have been found to kill. Covid19 is a particularly mild variant of the series. There is no such thing as a 'delta variant' or 'xxy variant'. It is not possible to have a variant of a variant. It is either covid19, or it is not.

The fraud is by DEMOCRATS implementing fear mongering over this virus to make Trump look bad. It is DEMOCRATS that shut down the economy and later used this same virus to commit massive election fraud sufficient to cause the 2020 election to fault.
The 'vaccine' by Pfizer or by J&J are not. They are treatments. They are experimental treatments. They program cells to manufacture covid19 viruses. Getting hooked on these 'vaccinations' and 'boosters' is simply infecting and reinfecting yourself with covid19.

Mandating any vaccine or treatment against covid19 produces Paradox V:
1. I get 'vaccinated' to protect myself from covid19.
2. I demand you get 'vaccinated' because my 'vaccine' doesn't work.

Mandating any mask to protect yourself from covid19 produces Paradox M.
1. I wear a mask to protect myself from covid19.
2. I demand you wear a mask because mine doesn't work.

These actually apply to all pathogens, not just covid19.

Masks in particular are not recommended to wear for longer than a couple of hours. They are dust masks. They do not stop any virus. Wearing them for long periods of time exposes you to bacteria and fungi that builds up in the mask material. This in turn can cause serious infections, including pneumonia.


The virus exists. So does the fraud.

 

[Into the Night]

Agreed, this is definitely not a partisan issue. The only group of doctors and other professionals that I know of who have signed a statement challenging the notion that biological viruses exist are referenced in the opening post of this thread. It took me around a year to finally come around to their belief on this. The more I looked at the evidence, the more their belief made sense to me.

So you decided to join this religion. Oh well, your own illiteracy prevails.

 

[Scott]

A word of advice: if you'd like me to read further then your ad hominem attacks, I suggest you insult -after- you present your arguments. Doing so at the start gets me to ignore most if not all of what you says afterwards.

So when you are you going to respond to the evidence that you continue to ignore?

Simply stop insulting me before you present it. You've done that this time.

Evidence of the covid virus being isolated and sequenced.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC703e6342/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1198743X20304274
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7366528/
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10096-020-03899-4

As I mentioned to Into the Night, virologists' claims of isolating and sequencing the Covid virus are greatly exagerated. Journalist Iain Davis gets into the details in the following article:

COVID19 – Evidence Of Global Fraud | Off Guardian